The Lincolnshire Bird Club

ND and I spent all day at Rimac in the areas where in the 70's, 80's and even early 90's I had some good days with migrant arrivals in autumn. The habitats have changed quite a bit with a seemingly almost total loss of Rabbits and hence almost all of the close cropped vegetation on the dunes has disappeared under scrub, buckthorn and hawthorn and long dense grasses. The elders seem to have amost totally died while the clumps of willow and sallow have expanded; the willow hedge is old and taller but the main change from the 70's and 80's is the growth of fences and the channelling of all human access to a few pathways used by dog walkers, joggers et al while all of the tracks and paths through the areas of scrub have long gone.
So habitat changes and lack of access to much of the site must make a difference to birds seen in a fall but today just seemed to prove that birds just are not appearing on the Lincs coast in the numbers of 20 or 30 years ago. It may also prove I am losing the knack of finding birds but with every new bird found at Spurn we tried harder, flogging the area from Churchill to Paradise all day and we located the following; Red backed Shrike 1 presumably the bird from Saturday, Pied Fly about 18 min, Spotted Fly 5+, Willow Warbler 20+, Chiff 4, Garden Warb 3, Blackcap 1, Redstart 5, Lesser White 11+, White 6, Whinchat 5, Reed Warbler 1, Grasshopper Warbler apparently still feeding young, --- not a single Wryneck, Icterine, Greenish or anything of note but what seemed more obvious to me was just how few birds there were in total compared to the totals being reported from east yorkshire sites. Falls in the 70's and 80's would have brought 20+ Whinchat and more flycatchers and warblers but they always seemed more obvious not lost in the morass of scrub and rank vegetation.
Saltfleet Haven late evening was even worse with few birds and the usual masses of people and dogs disturbing all parts of a once productive little area. Good birding spots on the Lincs coast are disappearing fast under the never ending procession of human beings a fact never more obvious than on a sunny bank holiday.

Natural England is now looking at making all NNRs open access which potentially means, cycle and horse riding as well as all others forms of people access, so making NNRs more like country parks, this apparently the new direction from goverment.
See the 38 degrees campaign for signing up to oppose this.
Re the growth it is exceptional for tall grasses last year and this year, so a seasonal variation, scrub is controlled in designated areas and 40 % of the sallows have been removed over the past 7 years.
The lack of paths is due to natural changes and a recognition that where paths exist dog walkers use them causing yet more disturbance to breeding birds and other fauna.
I agree with your observation of far fewer birds, that seems to have been a trend for several years, yet the CBC revealed some breeding species in very good numbers especially whitethroats linnets and chaffinches.
It would be interesting to know the trends at Gib and Spurn, i suspect very similar for overall numbers, and haven,t those sites always recorded more scarce and rarer migrants ? with more observers and easier to watch/record..
Interestingly Donna Nook is recording fewer birds, where some scrub has been removed making it easier to find some species,
I,m sure Steve can add to these observations with his comprhensive records for several decades.

regards John

I totally agree with your sentiments, Graham and although I am rarely in favour of privatisation per se the change of ownership of the reserve from taxpayer to the RSPB would have had a beneficial effect. Paying to go on the reserve would then exclude dog-walkers, cyclists, kite-flyers, off-road motor-bikers, unruly kids and all those other dregs of society who have no place on a nature reserve.
I place the blame for the increase in human pressure at the door of the business people on the East Lindsey and Lincolnshire councils who advertise widely to persuade people to come and spend their money in Lincolnshire, especially on the "unspoilt" coast bringing with them their nasty little town-dwelling habits as most of them don't know how to behave properly on a wildlife reserve.
The shooting of the rabbits, presumably to eradicate myxomatosis, was in my view misplaced as they should have been left alone to allow the creature to build up a resistance over generations to the disease. The humble rabbit, or at least it's dung, was responsible for attracting insects which in turn attracted many more birds than we see now.
As for management of the reserve, it or the lack of it, has succeeded in almost wiping out the population of orchids which were seen in their thousands on the reserve. One could get the impression that the place is a cattle ranch allowing local farmers to put their cattle on it as if it was common land -hence the restrictive fencing. The argument that livestock on the reserve is a vital management tool holds no water for me and only means that you spend less time looking up for birds and more time looking down at the ground so as not to tread in something smelly along with the what's already there left by "responsible" dog-owners!
Mike Tarrant

I can't disagree with much thats being said here. Especially about the uncaring visitors and bank holiday day trippers, in company but usually off lead and half a mile away from their uncaring owners dog. Ah! Fell better now.
I haven't checked Graham et al but from memory Spurn and other birding areas just to the North of Linc's. used to get good species numbers and falls back in the 70's, 80' & 90's and compared to linc's as was mentioned still does.
Yes the habitat has changed dramatically (poor management) visitors, dogs and idiot numbers have increased, while those narrow well used tracks have disappeared due to barbed wire in the main.
Having said that chaps the coverage by birders is abysmal in Linc's (not just my opinion) and appears far better North of the Humber which must be a big contributing factor (if true) to the lack of Linc's sightings.

_________________
Regards.
Del.

To err is human. To really louse things up takes a computer

Hi, I've submitted a response twice now, but it hasn't appeared, so last try.

We are now in our 31st year living at Brickyard Lane and backing into the Saltfleetby-Theddlethorpe NNR. I've been a NE volunteer now for over 35 years and LWT honouree representative here.

My birding goes back to the late 50s when I would to cycle down to Low Farm Tetney from Cleethorpes and stay weekends/all hours. The one thing that I can say is that bird and migrant populations have crashed since that time. A late autumn drift would yield many redstarts, wheatears and whinchats, but this weekend's drift was but a sad reminder of what it would have been like years ago.

I note from Steve Lorand's observations at DonnaNook, that he had a reasonable count of migrants yesterday, but again, we would have had many more birds when we first moved our ringing operations there in the mid 1960s.

The area where we ringed has significantly grown over with bushes since we were first there, but LWR have cleared much scrub from the north of the ringing site and opened up the more southerly areas with grazing. Even so, when I walked the area on Sunday, whilst waiting for the tide to drop to get out for my Saltfleet WeBS, I was struck by how few migrants there were.

At the NNR here, back in the 70s we manually cleared large areas of scrub around Rimac and the Trust meadow, which ultimately led to the huge blooming of marsh orchids. However, these are fickle plants and can and do disappear just as quickly. Nowadays, management is on the mechanical scale and can achieve much more. Around 4 years ago, large areas of scrub was removed from 2 areas, south of Churchill and south of Crook Bank. This has resulted in a fantastic blooming of over 3,000 pyramidal orchids, including the white form at the south end, along with many yellow wort, or Blackstonia. Equally, for those of you visiting the Rimac area, you will no doubt have been pleased to see how the marsh heleborine has expanded, with a peak of over 3,000 last year and slightly less this year. Management and climate therefore bring about many changes and just because one fickle species, which is blooming well in other parts of the reserve reduces, others come along.

I had hoped that the scrub clearances would have been more fruitful in terms of migrants, because south of Churchill, there is lots of edge effect and wire fences for perching, whilst at Crook Bank, there is open dune with isolated trees. The areas can be good, but not anything like hoped for, principally, because there are no longer the birds about.

Whilst we have been at Brickyards, we have purchase a field in front of our house, turned it into a hay meadow and enclosed it with what is now a mature hedge several hundred metres long. We have created 3 ponds in the garden, 2 of which are linked by a pumped stream. We spend over £100/month on bird/badger food and have unto 16 bird species breeding, including barn owl and turtle dove this year. It is obviously good for birds, but migrants are few and far between. There has been a spotted flycatcher yesterday, a pied flycatcher by the pond whilst typing this and also what was probably a honey buzzard, just flew past, but was lost to view by our mature trees. We should have many more migrants, but they are no longer there in numbers.

I don't think that people pressure would reduce migrant numbers, because in my experience, they mainly head for the beach. I walk our dog twice per day and almost never see anyone in the early morning. Equally, far less migrants than I would expect. However, I can expect to see a couple of row deer and muntjacks, along with over 100 rabbits between Brickyard and Churchill, so I'm surprised about the comment about lack of rabbits.

Dog mess can be a problem, but NE pay for bins at every car park, a long with regular council emptying services. Moror bikes and sand buggies are also a problem, but difficult to catch. Peter, John and I all phone the police, who are very helpful, but it's difficult to catch them. Any volunteers!?

We went to Spurn last October to see the 'artist in residence exhibition' at the light house. I was staggered at the 100s bird watchers, many hundreds general visitors and anglers. All the car parks were full. People pressure doesn't impact migrants there, but optical power on the ground certainly helps spot them. What could it do here?

To sum up, I believe that the main issue of migrants is more about the general crash in populations in the past 50 years, not impacts of management and that we could certainly do with more observers and volunteers here. I have followed many of the 38 Degrees campaigns now and have added my name to a few. I would agree with John that the campaign to stop total freedom to most NNRs is a good one to support. However, it should be rememberd that NNRs are dedicated for specific attributes. Here it is for plant life and geomorphology amongst other points. Even if the NNR was belonging to RSPB, they could not legally make the kind of changes to the areas that some birders may wish.

Regards,
Cliff

I don't think your argument, Cliff, that general reduction in migrant numbers stands up in relation to the number seen at Saltfleetby. If you had a pager you would have seen the numbers and variety of species seen along the east coast from Shetland to Kent these last few days. Good habitat attracts lots of birds; it's not there at Rimac.
Your revelations about your own private nature reserve proves my very point. If you provide them with a varied habitat which will in turn give them food and shelter the birds will turn up. Saltfleetby provides a near-monoculture of long grass and very little else. Why has the Sea Buckthorn been allowed to dominate with very little done to restrict its growth? In the seventies there was a very good wet marsh which provided an evening roost for up to 10 Hen Harriers; look at the same area now. Totally spoilt. The area to the east of it was access restricted (which was a good area for migrants like Bluethroats and Red-backed Shrikes) as a potential Wheatear breeding area! That never came to fruition either. I never thought it would.
Saltfleetby Nature Reserve requires a total rethink. Too many so-called experts have meddled with it in the past and look at the legacy which has been left us. I am afraid it is too late now. The good days have gone. I am glad I was there when it was a good reserve.

Most of the migrants coming across the North Sea to the Lincolnshire coast in the autumn are presumably breeding birds from Scandinavia. As far as I am aware the habitats of coniferous forests, mountains and lakes there has not deteriorated markedly over the past 20 or 30 years so the numbers of migrants potentially landing on the Lincolnshire coast should also be similar given the right weather conditions.

Breeding birds are very dependant on the right habitat and it is good to see that CBC counts at Salfleetby Theddlethorpe NR are going up for several species. Migrant birds struggling across the North Sea are not looking for the right habitat, when they reach the coast they will land literally anywhere.

Birds landing at Spurn Point will find a very limited strip of land with not much cover. Hundreds of birders will be looking for them and all the birds will be seen. The more fortunate birds that land on the Lincolnshire coast will find a large area of scrub, grassland and fields with few birders because they have all driven to Spurn or Norfolk.

I rarely visit the Lincolnshire coast and when I do I don’t see many rare birds but I enjoy my visits because I know that the birds are there, in their thousands, just out of sight. It takes practise to appreciate birds that you don’t see. It also saves a lot of time.

Hugh Dorrington

I agree almost 100% with what Mike has to say about Rimac. I think it's one of the worst reserves I've been to and if I do go there, I come away depressed.
I visited Sea View Farm this weekend and I'd forgotten how good it was, with short grass for Whinchat, Wheatear, Red-backed Shrike (and Wryneck which I missed) and well maintained hedges.
I have been at Saltfleet 11 years now and in that time I've noticed the spread of the Sea Buckthorn making it virtually impossible to see any birds.
I would find it difficult to say if birds have declined, as the weather has been so changeable from year to year.
Geoff

A very good and knowledgeable birding friend of mine thinks I am just wasting my time regularly birding on the Linc's coast.

Both my friend and Hugh Dorrington are of the same opinion it would seem. Which is:

"There if far to much impenetrable habitat (Buckthorn) and far too few active birders"

_________________
Regards.
Del.

To err is human. To really louse things up takes a computer

I wonder if DEFRA might be convinced to waste another 5 million quid of public money clearing the Buckthorn from Donna Nook to Mablethorpe.
On the pretext that when they've finished in Somerset. With the Linc's coast cleared, badgers would be easier to execute!

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=19603&p=44801#p44801

_________________
Regards.
Del.

To err is human. To really louse things up takes a computer

Declines in Scandinavian breeding migrants are well documented and involve a wide range of potential drift migrants most of which of course winter in various areas of africa affected by huge population growth, loss of habitats, excessive use of pesticides and dessication in areas like the Sahel.
Most of the birds being discussed do not disappear into welcoming areas of grass and scrub their habit is to feed on the outside of bushes and hence be visible: the interior of a swathe of sea buckthorn is not a very productive place for anything to feed and rank grass has virtually no value to any bird species if we exclude owls and raptors feeding on voles.
Birds are clearly not there in their thousands hiding from view and even migrants are in fact looking for suitable habitat to rest up and feed in and actively seek out the most suitable areas ifvthey did not they would simply perish.

Hi Guys.
Despite an almost annual reduction in spring and autumn windblown migrants reaching our shores and in particular the Linc's coastline.
Over the last few days counties to the North and Nth. East of Lincolnshire have seen good numbers of migrants. In truth more than the lions share of migrants and birders on the east coast.

I do feel we are all pretty much in agreement. In that the habitat along the Lincolnshire coastline has in the main been allowed to deteriate (largely unmanaged) over the past few decades. To put it bluntly I think we agree the habitat is now become pretty crap for birds and birding.

The adjacent and recently bird filled counties, do not suffer with like Linc's does, with mile upon mile of impenetrable unviewable (is that a word?) Buckthorn.

If the above is even close to reality. Then what can we as a group (apart from debating it constantly) do about this obvious serious problem.

_________________
Regards.
Del.

To err is human. To really louse things up takes a computer

I should not be suprised at some of the comment here from rare bird seekers not
recognising that Saltfleetby is far more than a bird reserve, various grassland butterfly species have had one of the best years since the transect began in 1978, marsh helleborine numbered a few hundreds at best in the 1980s over 7000 were
counted in 2012, and 32000 this year,Marsh Pea a national rare species has expanded and accounts for over 50% of the national population on this nnr, it also supports the largest extanct population of marsh moth and cruxifix beetle both national red data species, the dense scrub zones hold some of the densest populations of breeding whitethroats with over 140 territories cuckoos still breed 23 butterfly species 16 odonata species overs 300 plant species,
68 species of bee and wasp, natterjack toads breed, etc
Its is one of the finest natural dune systems on the east coast and the reserve is internationally recognised for this
notified as sssi, spa, sac as well as nnr, many of the visiting naturalists recognise this because they understand
the wealth of special fauna that occurs, and whether a rare bird occurs or not is of no consequence.
Rabbits were controlled during the 1980s and 90s because adjacent landowners were threatening legal action for crop
damage non have been shot for 9 years as the LWT now has ownership of 110 acres of adjacent land removing much of that requirement.
The total area of scrub on the reserve was reduced by 40 acres through 2005 to 2008 under the favourable condition assessment, a form of assessment applied to all SSSIs/ NNRs throughout the country.
Grahame hits the nail on the head in his last post, The population of Africe has trebelled over the past 40 years and many of those people are pasturalists with goats that have ravaged thousands of square miles of wild habitas degrading them and the populations of birds that depend on them, having travelled large parts of Kenya during the 1970s and again in 2009 i was staggered at the huge numbers of people and goats in areas that had almost non 36 years ago with new roads and towns
where previously it was wilderness and this occurs across much of the continent.
The lack of migrants on this nnr applies to much of the east coast and has nothing to do with people or management,
rare birds can turn up in almost any location, remember the american robin in Grimsby as an example
Comments such as Geoff Williams are typical of a bird twitcher and pay no regards to what the NNR is about
and even the RSPB are now focussing on Wildlife conservation as well as birds ,see there national TV adverts..
John.

I wasn't going to bother replying to this thread but feel compelled to. After working on nature reserves for almost 40yrs I find it quite sad that debate of this nature revolves around how a site like this is judged on its rare bird value when as JW quite rightly points out all the other key sp and mix of habitats and landscape features which makes this NNR special. Since the 1970s to date there has been tremendous ups and downs in available resource (staff/vols/finance) for the managing of nature reserves in Britain and this can have an affect...good and bad...on the management of the habitat. We are also under ever increasing pressure to provide suitable means for access to these places for the general public which will also put more demand on resources and in some cases habitats.

May I remind contributors to this thread that sea buckthorn is considered as a native plant to this part of the coast, so some areas will be managed as we do, others will be left. I wonder what opinion would be if in a good fruiting year which coincided with a good autumn fall of thrushes and it did pull in a vagrant thrush? Mass clearance of scrub wouldn't enter the discussion by some birders.

Finally as a reminder if it wasn't for the incredible forward thinking and perseverance of some eminent conservations this NNR would be now a mix of caravans and theme parks...the threat was real. Also, just as another reminder the Lower Derwent Valley NNR nr York was saved from a pump drainage scheme in the 70s to convert all the flood plain meadows to prime agricultural land and one more...the Humberhead Peatlands NNR came about through Thorne and Hatfield Moors being saved from further peat extraction. There are many other examples. All now good nature reserves with their own particular valued habitat and range of species. Some managed by Government bodies, others by charity organisations but all striving to balance a resource for conservation gain.

Peter

Wow! John. I enjoyed reading that but you left out "rant over" ;O)

Please lets not get into an argument or even the least bit offended by comments here.
Working on and around this NNR one can understand your frustration when one such as myself, a bird seeker (I prefer that to twitcher) makes comment on the perceived deterioration and lack of management of the reserve. I'm sure no one meant to offend you personally, I know i didn't.

I don't know how long you have been associated with and or working on the Saltfleetby-Theddlethorpe NNR but from some of the comments expressed on this thread. There has obviously been much change and obvious deterioration in the habitat of the S&T NNR, stretching some 8 kilometre along our Linc's coast.

No one (not even )
Even a relative newcomer and long time the twitcher like myself can fail to recognise that the NNR is home to a wealth of plants, insects and birds and contains a diverse and constantly changing habitat.
Which includes saltmarsh, foreshore and the every growing smaller dunes on the seaward side of the , extensive, impenetrable and ever expanding buckthorn.
Contrast these foreshore area with the older established dune system and unfortunately the seemingly ever decreasing marshes around Saltfleet and Rimac on the landward side of the buckthorn layer. It would seem the S&T NNR has it all and it does. NB: There has been no lack of migrants elsewhere recently.

I think what is being recognized by contributors to this thread mainly from years of visiting and experiencing the changes here. Is that there is just a little to much of some evasive habitat and has lost more than enough of other shorter sword and damper areas so much loved by it's resident wildlife and visitors both bird and human alike. I'm sure no one wants or expects a mass clearance of Buckthorn or instant wetlands at Rimac. Not today at least. Ha ha!

In a time when our Government is blindly spending taxpayers millions in the pursuit of the extermination of all manner of wildlife in our countryside. It's pleasing and refreshing not to read someone from NE banging on about problems with policy changes, lack of manpower or finance and management restrictions due to the SSSI designation being the reason (excuse) for not embarking on sensible management to prevent some destructive habitat changes. Have I spoken too soon?

_________________
Regards.
Del.

To err is human. To really louse things up takes a computer