The Lincolnshire Bird Club

After reading the above may I add that I am against the proposal.

The web site was probably the main reason for me joining the LBC and so if I can have full use of the
site without being a member why should I bother to pay the fees?

I don't think camaraderie comes into the equation. I meet lots of people whilst out bird watching
and enjoy their company and the exchange of bird related news etc but can scarcely recall membership
of the LBC cropping up in the many conversations over the years. The friendship seems to be automatic
simply because the vast majority of people we meet whilst out pursuing our hobby share the same or similar interests.

Let's keep the website in the main for LBC members - after all if it is going to be open to everyone then surely this
will not be the Lincolnshire Bird Club but the United Kingdom Bird Club or something equally meaningless and will lose its
attraction for residents in the county!

I am in the opposition corner jim sorry there are little enough reports on there now for fee paying members to view if you are not on twitter so why should I pay £15 for it. it is not the cash with me it is the principle. a just slightly annoyed terry whalin and no smilies !!!

Some posters seem to be taking a somewhat “calculating” approach to their LBC membership.

The attitude seems to be: “What’s in it for me?”

I’m not sure that’s healthy.

Likewise, the follow-up threat to quit membership altogether if the site starts to accommodate posts from non members.

I’m not describing that as blackmail (black-email?) because to do so would probably get me banned from posting! But it's heading that way - and it has a slight element of throwing the rattle out of the pram.

Although it would definitely be regrettable for the LBC to lose any member, it wouldn’t be the end of the world, especially as, in my estimation, the individual would later see the light and return to the fold.

The key factor is that he/she should continue to buy the annual report because that will ensure continued revenue for the club.

Perhaps two prices should be listed for the report - one for members (who don’t have to pay because they receive it free) and one (higher) for non-members. That might even be a bait to attract new members.

In addition, if that were to be the case, members troubled about value for money would see a clear benefit to their subscription.

Oh yes, and if any departing member still wants to submit posts to pages on the website, he/she will still be able to do so if the AGM proposal and amendment are approved.

Incidentally, I am unaware of other comparable bird clubs which put a block on postings by non-members. Are there any?

Why do some members want our site to be so ‘precious’ and narrow in its content? Is it something to do with the Lincolnshire mindset?

If I want to write a Letter to the Editor to a newspaper, I don’t have to be a subscriber to that newspaper for it to be considered for publication.

The website is already good - a credit to the initiative and braininess of its creator(s) and those who maintain it .

But the plain fact is that some sections hardly have a single new message from one day to the next. It’s like going to the Odeon hoping to see the latest Hollywood blockbuster – and gazing at an empty screen. Very unsatisfactory!

Or, to put it another way, it’s like going to a restaurant and being presented by the waiter with an empty plate. “Thank you, sir. Enjoy your meal. Sorry it’s invisible.

“Feel free to use the knife and fork. You’ll be cutting and pronging thin air but, no matter, it’ll be exercise for your wrists.”

To support the amendment and free up the site would be to bring the prospect of filling that plate with a sumptuous mixed grill! And even if you’re a vegetarian, there’s still plenty to enjoy – the mushrooms, the tomatoes, the peas and, best of all, the onion rings.

Even latest amendment opponent Terry Whalin concedes that the site would benefit from more postings.

For goodness sake, let’s open the site to non members - let’s give it a blast of oxygen!

Jim,

Being a stickler for detail I've just been looking at your posts which make interesting reading. Of your 89 posts 68 have been on this section which it says is 76.40% and you have been a member since 31st May 2014.

These last few years I've either not been able to get out or haven't wanted to because I get enough in my garden, this may also be the case that you haven't put many sightings on this forum. I know its not compulsory to put sightings on but this forum is the main reason it operates and if I'm wrong then I'm sure the powers that be will correct me.

It has crossed my mind if you own a big wooden spoon like I do although of late mine has had little use and its been gathering cobwebs but I'm sure it still works

The last thing I want on the forum is adverts for whatever, I see enough on the telly I want this forum to be as its been since its inception.

I'm in agreement with those opposing your motion, why should I pay subs (when I remember ) etc and allow anyone to post sightings of anything on here. Its not the amount of money its the principle, there are other bird forums that do advertise of which I'm a member and others that don't which I'm a member.

If any departing member wants to post sightings there is the other Lincs bird site to do that which I do both in tandem.

You mention the Lincs mindset , I'm a yellow belly and very proud of it and there is nothing wrong with my mindset , I can also stir the hornets nest at times and be very stubborn, awkward, cantankerous and a wind-up merchant .

I agree with you in regard to some sections being under used, which I mentioned recently about the Chat section, I would have thought that most of your subjects should have gone into this section, thereby it would have been well used It could be that it is the time of year ie things a bit slack so no one has any chat to chat about .

I'm not bothered that my plate is empty cos I much prefer a flask and sarnies or to cook my own on my camping stove, and I'm not a onion rings fan

If there is any blasts of oxygen send them my way cos writing this am out of breath

Lastly I see you have started another thread about 2016 meetings being changed to a day time, well long before you joined us i mentioned this on here I preferred a day time meeting so I didnt have a long drive home in the dark and for reason and this reason only that is why I've never been to a annual meeting but I do read the minutes online

Right Jim that's my five pennorth for what it's worth

Good Luck!

Toodle loo

Max

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GETTING OLD HAS IT'S ADVANTAGES BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT THEY ARE lol

Thanks, John, for taking the trouble to reply at length and amusingly - and thanks also for the extensive illustrations of little gentlemen in yellow coats!

If you agree (in your penultimate paragraph) that a Saturday afternoon is a better time for the AGM, why not propose the motion that I have already seconded on a separate thread?

Re the issue being debated on this particular thread, everyone seems to wish for more posts on the
website.

So why are some members so hostile to the single initiative that is most like to make this wish come true?

Does their position not defy logic?

What if David Attenborough, Chris Packham, Bill Oddie or some other notable wishes to submit a
post? Why should we refuse ourselves the opportunity to read their pearls of wisdom?

What if Mark Cocker wishes to post a message of thanks for our hospitality on March 24? Do we
block his note of gratitude. "Sorry mate, you're not a member."

What if a researcher wants to enlist help in seeking information on the pre-war breeding status of
red-backed shrikes in Eastern England ? Do we block the appeal?

What if a club in a neighbouring county wishes to invite LBC members to a forthcoming conference? Do we deny ourselves the opportunity to consider the invitation?

What if Vladimir in Russia seeks a birding penfriend in Lincolnshire? Or Sophia in Italy? Or Marie in
France? Or Brigitte in Sweden? Or Heidi in Germany? Or Tofiq in Azerbaijan? Are we so nward-looking that we must prevent ourselves even from seeing their appeals?

The list could go on.

What is it about some members that they seem set on snubbing the rest of the non-LBC birding
community? Only the consideration that somehow they are protecting the value of their club membership. Is this not petty and small-minded?

Someone will probably say there are already mechanisms by which the information can still be imparted.

But why put up barriers and hurdles? Who wants to wade through a bog of bureaucracy?

Below (scroll to end) is the amendment that I have today submitted by email to chairman Phil in order to meet the March 15 deadline.

I believe that, regardless of their views, all members would be interested to see what effect (if any)
an open door policy might have.

However, in recognition of strongly-voiced objections, I have modified my amendment to allow an
immediate return to the status quo in the unlikely event of the website being overrun by inappropriate postings.

Let's give it a chance. If it doesn't work it can be scrapped at a moment's notice.


3. Access to the Lincs Bird Club Forum: For a trial period of one year (or of a duration to be determined by the chairman and committee), both members and non-members shall be granted the right to submit posts to all sections of the forum together with the right to respond to any queries which result.

In the event of the integrity of the site being compromised or brought into disrespute by widespread
and persistent abuse or inappropriate postings, the club chairman or a delegated committee colleague shall have immediate executive power to reinstate the previous condition that restricts the right to post to LBC members only.

Any non member can submit a record indirectly by using the following link which is at the top of the forum section (Submit a Record for Non-members)

http://www.lincsbirdclub.co.uk/contact_report.htm

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Regards,

Andy.

Andy, I posted exactly that on this thread last Tuesday. Jim, I cannot understand the motive behind your one-man crusade to alter the Forum when the mechanism has always been there for non-members to contribute. That's my last comment on this until I say my piece at the AGM!

Sure this is going to be a very interesting topic of discussion at the AGM. Jim I do see where your coming from. The LBC does need a breath of fresh air. But I don't think letting non members post is it. I'm trying to wrap my brain around how to inject the forum with oxygen and fresh blood and when I do I'll let you all know. For now I'll just start with posting my sightings from today.

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http://anthonybentleywildlifephotography.blogspot.com/

UK life list 310 (Harlequin Duck)
Lincolnshire List 246 (Puffin)
Village (Brigsley) list 99 (Shelduck)

Thanks Anthony

the breathe off fresh air Anthony, would come if the people who only now use twitter so denying the people who do not have or want twitter access to the information did a posting on the original format, the forum. I for one feel that it has become a 2 tier system where only people on twitter have the use of all the information provided and the bird club has headed down the twitching avenue which is not what it is. rapid info may be useful for the few who dash around for nice long lists and there are many forums for such things which can be used. inside the lbc it has caused division and resentment, why should I keep providing my information for all and receive nothing in return, it is a one way street. I do not want to stop people using twitter or anything else but if the same people who put out the clubs info on twitter including mine without my permission to do so, were to do the postings the other way around. all twitter postings must be entered on the forum. this would keep everyone in the picture and up to date.

terry whalin no smilies here today

The long slippery slope started when birders started blogs, I noticed most of them when posting on their blog didn't put anything or very little on here! Okay we can access their blogs which I do at times but I'd prefer to read it on here, cos when I do read that a nice bird has arrived (not meaning a rarity) on their blog, it pees me off when I look on here and there is no mention, I know who I am referring to, quite a few of you who have blogs!

Nothing wrong with a blog, and its not compulsory to share your info which a lot of you don't.

I share my garden info with the world and happy to do so its a shame others don't do the same.

Considering how many members we have some of which are seasoned birders I find it odd only a small fraction have had owt to say on the matter, they will have their say at the AGM I expect. Maybe those who haven't said anything are those with blogs etc.

How about having a poll online?

i'll say one thing, Jim has opened an hornets nest and stirred the proverbial!

Like Terry on this occasion I'll refrain from using the little yellow icons which is a shame really cos I think they had a sense of mischief to the writing.

Whatever happens, happens.

JTG

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GETTING OLD HAS IT'S ADVANTAGES BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT THEY ARE lol

Maybe symptomatic of the forum of late that this thread has attracted many more words and responses than most of the reports of birds!

A couple of questions

Can members vote by post/ email if they are unable to attend the agm?

Is there a minimum number that is required for a vote to be valid?

I wish people would stop being so negative about Twitter and its users. I am an avid user of said Social Media but I am no way using it to chase after birds up and down the country to make a mega list.

I do however, use it to follow birders and bird groups who provide local, national and international birding news, photographs and insights. I also find out about campaigns & issues which I wouldn't otherwise find out about from mainstream media. If I knew how to our had the time to do so, I would probably also start a Blog based on the patch.

Saying that, it does also frustrate me that there are so few reports put on the site. I haven't analysed whether there is an actual significant reduction since Blogs & Twitter appeared or whether the trend had started before these 'horrors' developed.

However, as Chris Atkin pointed out the other week, it's often difficult to find the time to put a report on this site, upload the same details to Birdtrack / Patchwork Challenge, add them into your own archives, write a Blog and update Twitter. I suspect that the LBC forum will often be the last one to be thought of as it's the least 'personal' of the methods of recording.

I myself haven't had the time to put my last 2 or 3 patch trips reports on here but have tried to at least put the highlights out on atweet for anyone interested.

My thoughts anyway
James

Well said James.

I haven't a problem with anyone using social media as its called. Of late before I click on the forum I have a gander at the Twitter feed on the home page but only because it is there.

Since I've been a member I've certainly noticed in the early years there was only about a dozen members who put regular sightings on including me. And of late since quite a few new members joined they have posted sightings quite regular to make up for those and I include myself who don't post that often. Those with blogs and websites etc it must be a pain to re-write the same post several times.

The reason I don't post as often as I did is evident from my posts of late because I mention it.

It'll all come out in the wash as my dear mother always said!

Regards

Max

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GETTING OLD HAS IT'S ADVANTAGES BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT THEY ARE lol

Just to finish this thread off the vote at the AGM for Jim's motion was 35 against and 2 in favour with 6 abstentions. Andy Chick's more limited motion to give non members access to post on the bird reports thread was also rejected with 17 votes against, 9 in favour and 17 against. That settles the matter for the time being but I'm sure some members will want to come back to this in the future.

I'd like to echo Anthony Bentley's comment that the forum does need a breath of fresh air blowing through it but I recognise that James Smith is right that for many members posting on the forum is not the first priority when faced with many other social media and personal record tasks. If anyone has any ideas please post them on a new thread and thank you Jim for stimulating a worthwhile discussion. Hopefully we will all continue to mull this over and something positive will come out of it.