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Sabine's Gull??
http://lbcarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6753		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Russell Hayes [ Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Sabine's Gull??
Interesting picture in discussion album

larger picture on birdguides

http://www.birdguides.com/pictures/default.asp?v=1&f=154461&r=0&st=0&q=
Author:  trevormlee [ Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:40 pm ]
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Bit of trickery going on here me thinks !

what a strange looking bird .

Trev
Author:  Edmund Mackrill [ Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:01 pm ]
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It's a Common Gull - so what!?
Author:  Russell Hayes [ Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:22 pm ]
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Very harsh Ed.

Not obvious for some of us mortals. Head does seem rather dark, may be the lighting.
Author:  Graham Catley [ Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:00 am ]
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shadow across the head and over-exposed whites in the burnt out bits--photo effects
Author:  trevormlee [ Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:54 pm ]
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I think Eds comment about sums up certain Lincs birders, sarcastic, egotistical , unhelpful t*****s !

Its obvious its a Common Gull Ed, comments were being made that it looked odd , the photographer that took the pic was a little unsure of its id , although he had captioned it correctly as a Common Gull.

Regards

Trev
Author:  blgp_birder [ Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well said Ed.

No need to throw toys out the pram Russell, wonder why it got labelled as a Sabine's for a time on birdguides?!

Even if it was Sabs it wouldnt have a dark head at this time of year.
Author:  Russell Hayes [ Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
No need to throw toys out the pram Russell


Not sure why you have put this, my response to Ed's Comment was measured and considered. I do not believe I was throwing any toys about.

My original post headed Sabine's Gull? was as a direct response to comments made on Birdguides where some others questioned the ID. I have at no time said what I thought the bird's ID was, only that the picture was interesting and based on this, not as straight forward for everyone to ID.
Author:  Edmund Mackrill [ Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:52 pm ]
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I suppose that I should respond.
To me this bird is simply a Common Gull - probably an adult given the size of the primary mirrors - that has a bit of shadow on its head and underparts. There is nothing to suggest otherwise and as we all see Common Gulls everyday it just didn't occur to me that anybody would seriously believe that it was anything else. Perhaps my initial response was a little brusque but I honestly misunderstood the 'gravity' of the situation.
Photographers please don't let this stop you putting your pics into the discussion birds folder.
Author:  Trevor Gunby [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Sabine's Gull?
I didn't expect the photo to get that much interest but thanks to those have looked at it and taken the time to comment. When I originally looked at the photo it appeared to me to be a gull with a black head and yellow-tipped black bill and since the only gull in my reference books with these characteristics is a Sabine's I labelled it as that on my submission to Birdguides but when I saw it on their website it was called a Common Gull.
I am still not convinced that the black head and bill on the photo are entirely caused by shadow but having looked at more pictures on the web I can see that the colouring on the underwing does not match a Sabine's and neither does the tail shape. Interestingly one correspondent to Birdguides has suggested that it might be a Sabine's whilst another states that it definitely is - as a mere novice in these matters I am getting a bit puzzled. I seem to regularly come across hybrid geese and male mallards are noted for producing weird offspring from a variety of female partners. I haven't heard of hybrid gulls but are such things possible and could this have been one? :?:
Author:  Steve Botham [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:24 pm ]
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Hi
No its not a hybrid, its a Common Gull with a dark streaky head thats in the shadow making it look like a cap, there really is nothing to point to it being anything else, even if it was all black the shape would be totally wrong for a Sabs, Dont worry about getting things wrong, even the best have done it.
Author:  blgp_birder [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:25 pm ]
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Trevor - fair play.

It is not a Sabine's Gull for the reasons you stated - though I do agree there is some aberrent plumage going on. It could be melanism or it could be some kind of staining.

One point to note is that Sabine's Gulls don't have hoods at this time of year anyway.
Author:  Trevor Gunby [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Sabine's Gull?
Thanks for these last two comments, I find them very helpful. I find gulls very difficult to identify - particularly when they seem to have frequent changes of plumage and when juveniles are mostly brown instead of grey and white! Anyway I have now learnt a lot about gulls (at least the Common and Sabine's types) and this is surely what the "discussion" album is for - allowing the more experienced members to pass on their knowledge to those of us still finding things tricky at times. Thanks again to all who have contributed on this "strange bird".
Author:  Paul French [ Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:05 pm ]
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If you do ever think you have a good bird at Freiston, you can always phone the reserve staff on 01205 724678 (this is also printed on the information board by the car park) for a bit of advice or to warn us if there is about to be a twitch! If we can't get there, we'll know someone who can.
Author:  Steve Botham [ Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:25 pm ]
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Trevor, Treat yourself to the Gulls Book by malling, olsen and larsson.
Just one more point, Sabines is a very rare bird in Lincolnshire with some of the top listers still needing it, always try and eliminate the common birds first, then start looking at the rare ones.
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