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Lifer On Top of Neighbour's Roof!
http://lbcarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8646		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Katherine Birkett [ Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Lifer On Top of Neighbour's Roof!
After consultation with Steve Keightley, internet pictures, my RSPB Birds of Britain & Ireland CD-Rom and the Collins Bird Guide, I am confident that I have just seen Lifer No. 162.

Second-winter Ring-billed Gull on top of my neighbour's roof!

A nice unexpected present for my 31st birthday today! :D
Author:  Katherine Birkett [ Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifer On Top of Neighbour's Roof!
ADDITIONAL: I think it counts as a garden tick because it flew over my garden airspace on its departure.
Author:  John Clarkson [ Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifer On Top of Neighbour's Roof!
Katherine, R-b Gull is a very rare bird in Lincs. Can you describe the features that led you to this conclusion?

John
Author:  Nick Clayton [ Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifer On Top of Neighbour's Roof!
Hi Katherine

The Ringed-billed Gull is a very rare bird to Lincolnshire and to the entrained eye (that includes mine) can be difficult to separate from Common Gull, are you sure its not a Common Gull you have seen. A second winter Common Gull has a dark thick band around it’s bill similar to that of Ring-billed Gull.

Could you give the I.D. features that lead you to identify it as a Ring-billed Gull?

Thanks
Nick
Author:  Nick Clayton [ Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifer On Top of Neighbour's Roof!
John, sorry to repeat, I posted pretty much the same thing at the same time.
Author:  Katherine Birkett [ Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifer On Top of Neighbour's Roof!
1 - head heavily speckled at a tone too light to be Common Gull.
2 - 'tail' feathers totally uniformly black; not 'spotty' like Common Gull
3 - Grey legs
4 - Eye was not fully black and 'kind-looking' as in Common Gull and Kittiwake. Pale, almost white iris.
5 - Chunkier, beefier bill than Common's slender bill.
6 - Bigger than Common.
Author:  Andy Sims [ Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifer On Top of Neighbour's Roof!
What age was this bird?
Juvenile Ring-billed have pink legs and all other ages have yellow legs.
Author:  Nick Clayton [ Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifer On Top of Neighbour's Roof!
Have you considered 3rd-winter Herring Gull Katherine.

Thanks
Nick
Author:  Katherine Birkett [ Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifer On Top of Neighbour's Roof!
I don't know - I thought my ID skills were getting better....... the R-B Gull was the nearest in the pics.......
Author:  Nick Clayton [ Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifer On Top of Neighbour's Roof!
Katherine, Gulls can be difficult to identify even for quite experinced birders, so I shouldn't worry about your I.D. skills, just remember if you identify a difficult bird as a county rarity the chances are it is something more common.

Thanks
Nick
Author:  Nick Clayton [ Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifer On Top of Neighbour's Roof!
Hi Katherine

I bet you are wondering what you should do if the bird you saw was a Ring-billed Gull and you wanted it to be believed by your fellow birders and accepted by the county recorder (your friend Steve Keightley), It won’t suffice to say it looks like the picture in the book, what you need to do is make field sketches and notes (blimey I’m starting to sound like GPC).

You mention you own the Collins Bird Guide, if you read the text it tells you R-B Gull resembles Common Gull which it obviously isn’t from some of the features you mention, such as the iris colour, size etc. If you read on though it also mentions ‘3rd-year Herring resembles 2nd-year Ring-billed’ and gives some useful indicators.

In summary what I am trying to say is with difficult to identify birds don’t just compare with the pictures in the field guide but pick out the key identification features within the text and compare these with sketches and notes which you made whilst observing the bird.

Having said all that my own identification skills aren’t brilliant and I don’t make field notes, therefore if anyone with greater experience in such matters would like to comment this would be most welcome. I hope I have been of some help.

Thanks
Nick
Author:  Katherine Birkett [ Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifer On Top of Neighbour's Roof!
Nick Clayton wrote:
what you need to do is make field sketches and notes (blimey I’m starting to sound like GPC).

That is what I am most worried about - I have significant developmental co-ordination problems through Dyspraxia chiefly, and Asperger's Syndrome secondly.

My handwriting is almost unreadable and as for sketches...... well..... I just can't seem to keep a pen or pencil under my physical control. Ask me to draw a cloud and it ends up looking like the Taj Mahal. At school, I was the only person in my year to be asked to do my GCSE and A Level exams on a word processor, such was the teachers' concern over the presentational standards of my work. I never learned to swim or catch a ball consistently and I had the humiliation of always being picked last for team sports in P.E.

Early on in my birdwatching hobby, I thought I had a rare bird and made hurried notes. Now, if you ask me to hurry my writing and drawing, the infantile scrawls I can make when relaxed get even worse. When I got home, I couldn't read my own writing at all, and the drawing was a total mess. I was so angry, frustrated, embarrassed and upset with myself I have not written any field notes or sketches since, preferring to rely on a gift my conditions have indirectly given me; a near-photographic visual memory. Even now, I find it difficult to put my hair up in a pony tail and am an unattractive sight when trying to eat without spillage or food slipping off the plate when using a knife and fork. Dad uses the phrase 'ham-fisted'.

Is there any way I can make field notes, but sidestep the physical aspect of drawing and writing? Are there any computerised handheld gadgets I can use? I would consider digiscoping but I am worried the cost would be prohibitive.
Author:  Nick Clayton [ Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifer On Top of Neighbour's Roof!
Hi Katherine

I’m sorry to hear the difficult time your condition has caused you. Probably the best way for you to make notes would be with a Dictaphone, I’m not sure how much these cost though. This in combination with your near photographic visual memory may be enough for you to have the information you require to identify a difficult bird for your own satisfaction, although I don’t really know whether the county recorder requires sketches when considering a bird.

If you have this information by the methods mentioned above you need to consider the key identification features of the bird in question, which as I said before would be within the text of the field guide.

Thanks
Nick
Author:  Roger Hebb [ Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifer On Top of Neighbour's Roof!
hi Katherine,
katherine,the only way to get the bbrc to accept rare birds is throu camcorders/digital photo"s,the days of written evidence is drawing to a close unless you are well known to the bbrc,if you are well known-then your sighting will get probably a more sympathic apprassial,if your not such as you and me forget it,if i find a rare bird on my own or with another without video or photographic evidence,i will not waste my time sending it to them as i did with the black kite at broughton,even j harriman said he would not have sent it in if hed seen it!!.
hope that helps katherine-may sound gloomy,but thats how it is im afraid.Ps-If you see a Alder/Willow Flycatcher in your back garden in the next few days,who yer gonna call???i know a guy who would sort out the rarity acceptance problems,no clues to his identity,but im gonna have a bristols cream sherry afore i hit the sheets tonight,regards,
Roger.
Author:  Brian Eke [ Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lifer On Top of Neighbour's Roof!
Hi Kitty.

The most important thing you have done is reported the possible sighting as you have SEEN it!

Now the difficult part comes about ?

On all the information and references you have to hand you are reasonably convinced , what you have seen is what you have identified it as!!!

Not having had the pleasure of finding a notable bird in the fair county of Lincolnshire or anywhere else as well. You have the advantage over us mere mortals on the gift you have and cannot express. How do you normally overcome these problems in everyday life? I can do it by arguing the toss and getting angry and trying forcefully to convince others that, I am correct!!

I work on RAF Waddington chasing the birds but find a lot of time to Wildlife watch as well. I have been wildlife watching for about 50 yrs now and still have to refer to more experienced/expert people who quite often blow me out on various errors or nicely explain why, I have misidentified what, I have seen!!!

Don't worry!!!
Keep reporting, your enthusiasm and commitment gives us Normal people a chance to learn and not pooh pooh when someone is still learning and doing the same mistakes we have all done over the years.

If you don't make mistakes you don't LEARN.

All the best.

Brian.
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