On reading Ed's thread my reaction was too say b***** hell!
I've only ever seen one of these birds and better not say where in case the shooters visit the site.
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| Woodcock record http://lbcarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9278 |
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| Author: | Edmund Mackrill [ Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Woodcock record |
Just to reinforce my own view and opinion in general that there have been good numbers of Woodcock about this year the Shoot in Welton le Marsh Woods had a record day for the species on Thursday January 29th when 203 birds were shot!! 75 would normally be considered a good day. |
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| Author: | Colin and Sheila Jennings [ Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Woodcock record |
Our immediate reaction to learning of this "record" was dismay. Colin and Sheila |
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| Author: | Freddy Johnson [ Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Woodcock record |
....and mine was total dismay! >:( =angry Freddy |
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| Author: | Richard Gunn [ Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Woodcock record |
I could have understood this had it been a Malta statistic. Richard.. |
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| Author: | Chris Grimshaw [ Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Woodcock record |
What a shame and it's an unbelievable figure considering I normally see less than a dozen a year |
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| Author: | John T Goy [ Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Woodcock record |
On reading Ed's thread my reaction was too say b***** hell! I've only ever seen one of these birds and better not say where in case the shooters visit the site. |
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| Author: | Russell Hayes [ Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Woodcock record |
Quote: 75 would normally be considered a good day. If 75 would have been a "Good" day why didn't they stop when they got 75? |
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| Author: | Andy Sims [ Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Woodcock record |
I am almost in tears writing this reply. This isn't sport, it is simply barbaric. How can we complain about shooting in Italy, Cyprus and Malta when this takes place in our country? I knew that Woodcock were shot but never imagined it took place on this sort of scale. It makes you wonder how the species manages to survive. How many killers (not sportsmen) were involved in this massacre? |
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| Author: | Paul French [ Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Woodcock record |
The difference is that as a general rule, hunting on the Continent is a sport done by the common people, while here it is done by the rich on private estates. Its much harder to get that kind of thing stopped when the people making the laws are the ones undertaking the activity. Note that i'm fully aware of the exceptions to this, with many normal folk enjoying legal "sport" here as well. Although i've always thought of sport as being a contest between two or more participents who all enter into the game with a chance of winning. Not many woodcocks choose to be shot at, and even fewer carry weapons to give themselves a chance.... |
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| Author: | Dean Eades [ Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Woodcock record |
ttp://www.shootingtimes.co.uk/woodcock/ ... dcast.html |
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| Author: | Freddy Johnson [ Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Woodcock record |
We must remember that many of the Woodcock shot in the Welton le Marsh massacre would have been migrants that arrived last Autumn, seeking the natural hospitality of Lincolnshire away from the dangerous harshness of a Scandinavian winter.. Yet we berate and criticise the Maltese for shooting migrant birds. If British shooters really must kill to get some "sporting pleasure" out of life/death, shouldn't they at least be limited to the managed home-reared stock of feral Pheasant, Partridge and Grouse? ( although I find that activity nauseating, too .) Shooting genuine wild species -eg Woodcock, Snipe - should be totally banned (whether they are migrant or not.) Where does the RSPB stand in this regard or are the responsible Sandy- based officials too busy filling in the 'satisfactorily shot Ruddy Duck statistical returns' ? Finally, I think it's a pity that Woodcock haven't yet evolved their own hostile bird-attack tactics (with their own personal weapons which they DO carry) in the shooting season in the manner of territorial aggression as exhibited by Great Skua and Herring Gull in the breeding season. The thought of 203 aggressive and good-sized bills descending on the shooters plus random eye-poking and head-slashing would certainly level up Paul French's playing field. Regards, Freddy PS. Andy, when you consider that the Welton le Marsh massacre was just one of probably dozens (hundreds?) of similar shoots, especially taking place in Eastern England, throughout the Winter......well, the mind boggles at the final 'bag' figures. |
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| Author: | Alex Lees [ Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Woodcock record |
That current Woodcock 'harvest' rates may be unsustainable has already been mooted - see EUROPEAN UNION MANAGEMENT PLAN FOR WOODCOCK Scolopax rusticola 2006 -2009 (Draft) available at: http://www.woodcockireland.com/mngt_plan.doc Bag totals for the UK are in the 100,0000-150,000 range (valued at £22,000 - 33,000) see http://www.iucn-uk.org/PDF/iucnWLRresources.pdf (ten times that number are shot in France annually). Alex Ps, if anyone is particularly interested I can foward this paper: Factors affecting population dynamics of Eurasian woodcocks wintering in France: assessing the efficiency of a hunting-free reserve Olivier Durieza, Cyril Erauda, Christophe Barbraudd and Yves Ferrande Abstract The Eurasian woodcock Scolopax rusticola is a migratory bird of major importance for hunting, which is susceptible to habitat loss and the stochastic effects of severe winter weather. Conservation issues mostly concerned regulation of hunting, but the efficiency of hunting-free reserves has never been investigated. We studied causes of mortality and survival probabilities of 98 radio-tagged woodcocks in a reserve with no hunting and in an adjoining hunting area in Brittany (France). Predation, mostly by mammalian predators on fields at night, was similar among adults and yearlings, while hunting mortality was more important in yearlings. Overall winter survival probabilities were 0.86 ± SE 0.07 in adults and 0.63 ± SE 0.07 in yearlings. Survival probabilities of both age classes increased as birds spent more time in the reserve. Equality of predation in both reserve and hunting areas suggests an additive mortality due to hunting over the winter. Population matrix models predicted that such low survival probabilities cannot sustain long term viable populations. These results call for caution in the harvesting of woodcock populations wintering in western France and could be a forewarning of a decline. The regulation of hunting by setting bag limits or reducing the length of shooting seasons, or the creation of reserves might be appropriate tools for the sustainable management of woodcock populations. |
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| Author: | Edmund Mackrill [ Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Woodcock record |
Excellent response - better than I had dared hope for. Freddy Johnson has summed up the situation pretty well. I have spoken to people in the Game Dealing business in the last week and from only 9 shoots in East Lincs around 2000 Woodcock have been dealt with. So how many Woodcock are slaughtered in Lincs annually - 20,000, 30,000 who knows? The price paid per bird directly to the shoot is £2 - the birds then passing onto middlemen who sell them on, mostly to London but also into Europe with some even making it to Japan. From Alex Lees figures this is worth £200,000 - £300,000 pounds at the shoot level - certainly upto £1,000,000 + by the time they end up on a plate. I was also told that the birds are in very good condition this year - plump! The Keeper of Welton le Marsh Woods told me that on the record day he reckons that there must have been 800 Woodcock in the Wood - 'like confetti' he said!! Given that for Partridges a 3 shot at to 1 killed ratio applies Woodcock is at least 4:1. Then 20% would have been injured - some to die later. The figures are appalling. Paul French is a little wide of the mark regarding Lincolnshire's shooting 'fraternity' for most shooting is carried out on farmland/woodland by farmers and by anybody who can afford £500 for a day's shooting - commoners or otherwise. It could be your Plumber or Doctor! I am a little surprised that Lincolnshire Birdwatchers do not realise how many Woodcock there are in our woods during the winter - whenever Monica and I go looking for Woodcock we easily find loads. Tumby Woods are reckoned to be the mecca for Woodcock shooting with 100+ bird days. Yes, Freddy, I too wonder why this state of affairs over the continuous slaughtering of Woodcock is not high on the agenda of the RSPB? Any RSPB personnel care/dare to comment? |
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| Author: | Alex Lees [ Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Woodcock record |
The season for Woodcock last from 1st Oct - 31st Jan, as most of the birds involved are of Continental origin and most arrive from late Oct onwards that is effectively a 3 month window. Woodcock are still arriving into Jan - I had one from a survey boat in the North Sea recently. 30,000 for Lincs does thus sound steep - shooting activity seems to peak late in the season so you can't assume constant bag totals (not to mention the diminishing returns that must ensue). I seem to remember a figure of 200+ shot in a south county wood a couple of years ago, certainly if you go off-piste in any woods in the SW you can flush loads - try Belton for instance. The RSPB isn't involved, yet, as there is no concrete evidence for population-level declines. However some of the recent papers suggest we are hunting above the maximum sustainable yield, so maybe the Game Conservancy will have to pay more attention to these. Considering the socio-economic importance of the shoot - particularly in Europe then hunting restrictions are likely to be met with stiff opposition. |
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| Author: | Richard Gunn [ Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Woodcock record |
The BirdLife International tome(Series No.3),'Birds In Europe-Their Conservation Status' and I quote from it, reference Woodcock. Status- vulnerable. Criteria- Large decline. Where is the RSPB input to help prevent the Woodcock carnage? Nowhere! I suspect it's hands are tied by The Royal Charter. Richard.. |
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