The Lincolnshire Bird Club

Am a little puzzled about postings (or lack of them) on the Reports section.

As of 1810 29/09 there are at least 5 photos by 2 photographers of a LBD at Freiston in the Album, yet there is no mention of it by anyone on the Report Section. This is a situation that I have noticed in the past with other birds (Spoonbills at Alkborough was one instance, I think).

Why is this? Surely if you have the time and opportunity to upload the photos, you also have the time to mention it in the reports! Also the word has been put out that the bird was there, presumably by text or phonecall, so why can't the information be put out on this site as well?

It makes no odds to me on this occassion, as I don't have a cat in hell's chance of seeing this visitor but that may not be the case with future birds. I am not in any birding clique and don't subscribe to any alert services but do look at this site several times a day!!

And breathe!! Rant over

I was wondering the same, even if I wouldn't normally go to most sightings.

David

Fair point - I normally would have put the news out on here, but have been rather busy this week and others had already put it onto Birdguides etc, so news was out, just not here.

Found by Keith & Wendy Robertson on Monday pm it wasn't seen again until Thursday.

Still there today btw and showing very well.

John

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Contact: recorder_south@lincsbirdclub.co.uk

John,
You are normally excellent at getting out news of rare birds from the RSPB Wash reserves, but with BBC TV cameras pointing in your direction recently you will have had much more to think about than usual.
When can we expect to see you on Countryfile?

Roy

My rant wasn't aimed at you John, more those that come on and post their photos without adding notes on the Reports section. If details are on Birdguides, passed by word of mouth etc why can't they be put on here at the same time?

I assume this rant about cronyism was directed at me since I was the first to post photos of the Long-billed Dowitcher at Freiston so let me have a few words in reply.

Firstly I make it quite clear I DON'T DO CRONYISM!!!

I happened to be at Freiston for the high tide on Thursday morning in the hope of catching up with the odd Curlew Sandpiper or Stint neither of which I found. I was in the hide along with many other people when Alex Parker came in and announced to everyone present that he had spotted the LBD further down the path towards the sea - clearly he was attempting to let as many people as possible know about the bird and there was no question of just whispering the news to a "crony".

I packed my gear and followed him down the track to where the bird could be seen and continued to watch and photograph it until it flew off seawards at about 11:50. There were many people about that morning and whilst a small group of us watched the LBD lots of individuals and groups went past. Almost all stopped to ask what we were looking at and when Alex said "we are watching a Long-billed Dowitcher" they invariably said "Oh!" and carried on walking. It surprised me that so many apparent birders could ignore a once in a life time opportunity and carry on down to the sea wall to look at a few Mallards!

As soon as I got home I decided to post some of the photos to the Rare Birds album and decided not to make an entry in the Bird Reports. There were several reasons for this:-

1. The bird had already been reported on Birdguides including the time that it had departed. I had no way of knowing that the bird might return and so there seemed little mileage in reporting a bird that as far as I knew was no longer there. It seems more than likely that anyone with access to this website would also have access to Birdguides and a duplication of the report seemed of little use in the circumstances.
2. I had an experience in my early bird watching days when I was 100% sure that I saw two Spotted Redshanks in front of a hide near Ripon. A few days later I met a gentleman in the same hide who told me that he had been there every day for the past seven or eight years and had logged every bird he had seen. When I told him about the Spotted Redshanks he said "You must be mistaken - you would never see them here!" (Amazing how an "expert" can assume that because he has never seen a particular species at a particular site no-one else can possibly see one. You would think that such a person would have learned that birds can fly and where they land is not governed by any rules that we make.) It seemed quite possible that if I put a short written report on the website I might get a similar reaction here - nobody has ever see a Long-billed Dowitcher at Freiston therefore he couldn't possibly have seen one!
3. My reaction was therefore to post some photos to the album and that way anyone browsing the website could see that the bird had been at Freiston and that there was no doubt about the identification of the species.
4. It has often been said that a picture is worth a thousand words and so it seemed logical to post pictures rather than waste time on a few words which would probably have been doubted by many.

I don't understand why anyone should complain that a bird has not been reported when there are photos on the website which do the job far better than a few words! Does it seem that I am practicing "cronyism" and trying to keep a find to myself and my "cronies" when I publish photos for all to see?

It also seems rather odd that people should complain that they have not been told about a bird and then say that they would not have gone to see it anyway!!!

I have to say that I strongly object to this Accusation of "cronyism". I have written on this site before about the dangers of making accusations and judgements about incidents without knowing either the person involved or any of the circumstances surrounding the incident. My words must have fallen on deaf ears if there are still some prepared to make reckless statements.

I don't expect an apology because my experience suggests that people who make misjudgements in this way rarely, if ever, apologise for their inevitable mistakes.

On a lighter note after posting the photos of this particularly rare bird I also posted a couple of shots of a young blonde TV presenter who was working with the Countryfile team at Freiston at the time. Which pictures got the most attention - the young blonde of course whilst the rare Dowitcher was almost ignored. Makes you wonder what sort of Bird Club this is?

Oooooooh

All.

Life, suck's does'nt it but we have all been there!!

Brian.

What's cronyism any way??

I do my own thing anyway! and £ 50.00 for a wekend at the end of this month with friend's in Norfolk not cronies will do me fine.

please don't take this the wrong way as it is a light hearted remark but, you could have saved yourself a thousand words if you'd just put LBD at Freiston.

Hi Trevor,

A lot of words in reply

I apologise for using the word Cronyism. I could have probably used a more appropriate word, 'Cliqueyness' maybe?

I also apologise for jumping to the wrong conclusion about how the information about the LBD was spread. I assumed that Alex had informed people by text / phone / pager rather than by word of mouth, as you so eloquently explain.

In addition, I also apologise for writing my post in a manner that led you to believe that you were being singled out. I was using the LBD as an example to highlight a general comment about lack of information on the forum and was in no way intending to single individuals out. By the time I saw the photos, they were not the only ones uploaded so I have no idea who was the first to add them. I did refer the fact that I thought similar incidents had happened earlier involving other individuals.

Whilst I can see that you might feel it odd to complain even though I, or others, might not have been able to see this bird that will not always be the case. For example, I could have missed out on the Immingham Pratincole under similar circumstances.

I presume that I am not the only LBC member that isn’t signed up to a rare bird alert company and it’s a bit glib to assume everybody is. Maybe the LBD had gone and those with bird alerts knew this but maybe a quick note on the site to say it had been seen but had already left may have saved someone a wasted journey!

Not sure if I was the only one to take issue with your comment about some visitors being more interested in seeing “some Mallards” than the Dowitcher. In my opinion this shows a good deal of 'snobbishness' about birding. I would suspect that the vast majority of people in the UK who class themselves as birdwatchers have no interest in mega rarities and twitching and are perfectly happy to just see the 'Mallards' of the birding world. They have no interest in pagers and text messages.

Anyway all this is a distraction from the point of my original post, which was, that considering we are now in the world of mobile internet access and text messaging wasn’t it feasible for sightings to be placed on the LBC site, as quickly as onto Birdguides etc. Thinking about it, I suppose that would be a waste of time as all true birders will have mates or pagers to alert them and of no interest to those of us not able to go see the birds!!

BTW I accept your apology in adavance.

Well said, James.

Hi James

Thanks for replying

I have to say that just as I don't do "cronyism" I don't do "cliqueyness" and so I still am not happy about the categories into which you are trying to slot people.

I also do not see that my surprise at finding people not wanting to look at a rare bird is in any way "snobbish" - we were simply trying to enhance their experience of
visiting Freiston just as I would have appreciated someone pointing out a rare bird to me!

I also would say that I do not subscribe to any paging system and I do not have mates or "cronies" to contact me when they come across a rare bird.

I do have a phone that is capable of internet access but as far as I am aware neither Freiston nor any other site that I visit is an area which permits connection to the internet.

I was simply in the right place at the right time to see the LBD and in my judgement I did my best to inform members as soon as I possibly could by putting the photos on the Club website for all to see.

I suppose that what I am Basically trying to get across here is that there will be as many different ways of enjoying birds as there are members of the Club. Some wiill simply watch birds in their garden whilst others will travel may hundreds of miles to catch sight of a rarity and add a tick to their list. Some will attempt to alert the world to an unusual find whilst I've heard of some who can find a rare bird and will not even tell their best friend so that they have an "exclusive" tick on their list. So what I would like to see is everybody tolerating the way in which everbody else goes about birding and no name calling or accusations of wrong behaviour (unless there is definite proof of serious misbehaviour).

Anyway it looks as though I am living in a dream world believing that Club members can get on well together and you already seem to have at least one supporter who similarly believes that I am guilty of "cronyism", "clicqueyness" and "snobbishness" when none of these is anywhere near the mark.

I recently re-joined Club and have been doing my best to be a good member. It looks as though this is the start of another campaign to hound me out of the Club by making accusations of improper behaviour without the slightest shred of evidence.

By the way I don't understand why you excpect an apology - perhaps you can explain that!

Trevor,

Sorry, but I seem to be unintentionally winding you up. "Cronyism" was a joke, hence the Smilie Wink next to it!

I do not know you and I am unaware of any history with you and the LBC site, so apologies if old ground is being gone over. There is no intention to be having a go at you.

As I stated on both my posts, the point I was making was a general point about the use and workings of the LBC Reporting section and also whether it could be improved. I could go on but no doubt about it but I guess I would be in a minority with my thoughts so I won't bother.

You make a valid point about mobile phone network coverage.

Once again I was being humourous with my comment about an apology. You stated that you wouldn't get an apology as 'people like me' never do but I apologised 3 times!!

Apologies that I have affended you Trevor, and anybody else who thinks I was having a go at them.

James

Trevor, I am sure that nobody is trying to hound you out of this forum, we are pleased to have you back.

James, I believe that your tongue in cheek comments have been taken much more seriously than you had ever anticipated.

I suggest that there should be no further comment on this subject and let us all get on with enjoying the birds, whether common or rare, in whichever way that we choose.

Roy

So let's just straighten it up then.

I apologise, James, if I took your comments much more seriously than you intended but it did seem at the time that I was coming in for severe criticism when I thought that I was doing my best to inform members of the presence of the LBD.

As I said there will be as many ways of enjoying birds as there are members and inevitably all of us will at times not be in total agreement with what others may be doing so let us just be tolerant and accept other peoples ways unless they step seriously out of line.

I am just a simple birder who enjoys watching and photographing birds and hopes to share experiences on the Club website where appropriate. I hope that I can continue to do this and that others won't get annoyed if they don't always completely agree with my attitude to birding!

There is probably no need for further discussion on this matter.