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Thurlby Gull Roost
http://lbcarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=9327		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  David Jenkins [ Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Thurlby Gull Roost
My usual weekend visit to the gull roost produced-
Good numbers of small gulls, but big gull numbers were well down, with less then 50 Herring Gulls and GBBG, best birds were-

Iceland Gull 1 1st winter flew in at 5.05
Mediterranean Gull 1 adult winter
LBBG 4
Yellow legged Gull 1 adult

Wild fowl numbers still high with- 89 Pochard, 28 Ruddy Duck and 41 Goldeneye

Marston SF- noon-2.30
Merlin 1 male
Stonechat 1 male
Water Rail

David Jenkins
Author:  Freddy Johnson [ Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thurlby Gull Roost
In view of the (legal)activities of trigger-happy Government/RSPB sponsored shooters, would it not be advisable to omit ANY reference to Ruddy Duck numbers in our web reports in future? ......or is there a cease-fire in operation at the moment?

Regards,

Freddy
Author:  Alex Lees [ Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thurlby Gull Roost
Freddy Johnson wrote:
In view of the (legal)activities of trigger-happy Government/RSPB sponsored shooters, would it not be advisable to omit ANY reference to Ruddy Duck numbers in our web reports in future? ......or is there a cease-fire in operation at the moment?

Regards,

Freddy


Hi Freddy

Don't you believe in the potential for extinction by introgression of White-headed Ducks?

Alex
Author:  Edmund Mackrill [ Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thurlby Gull Roost
Sorry but I can't resist a reply.
In the approx 3.2 billion years of life on earth it has been suggested that 99.9% of all the species ( perhaps billions ) that have ever lived are now extinct. Also the average length of time that a species exists for is about 4 million years. So if the White-headed Duck's number is up - so what - let's enjoy our Ruddy Ducks. Thankyou Uncle Sam!
Author:  Alex Lees [ Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thurlby Gull Roost
Edmund Mackrill wrote:
Sorry but I can't resist a reply.
In the approx 3.2 billion years of life on earth it has been suggested that 99.9% of all the species ( perhaps billions ) that have ever lived are now extinct. Also the average length of time that a species exists for is about 4 million years. So if the White-headed Duck's number is up - so what - let's enjoy our Ruddy Ducks. Thankyou Uncle Sam!


Hi Edmund

I hope that was tongue-in cheek, we live in the 'Anthropocene' thats the age of extinctions perpetrated by man's actions, its sad that the Ruddy Ducks (and the taxpayer) have to pay the cost but these are the unpleasant conservation decisions we face. Would you say the same thing about the extermination of rats, to prevent the extinction of island birds, they are equally sentient beings......

Alex
Author:  Freddy Johnson [ Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thurlby Gull Roost
Alex,
Yes I do believe in the POTENTIAL for extinction by introgression of the White-headed Duck, not that I am, nor anyone else is, in possession of the infallible data to fully support an inevitable introgressive extinction belief. I happen to agree with another LBC colleague with whom I have been in touch recently that there has to be some degree of management in all areas of Natural History in our own small ' British Isles '. If the White-headed Duck were a British breeding species, I could therefore at least understand a point of view for a British cull (not that I would agree with it).
However, the Spanish are great hunters and shooters and I would prefer the solution to be that any Ruddy Duck found in Spain could be shot but NO culling to be allowed in the UK. I also tend to think it's another case of the 'soft' Brits anxious to please. If the Spanish or French were asked to perform a similar action in their own countries the answer would probably be (in Spanish/French) - "You must be joking!"

Regards,

Freddy
Author:  Alex Lees [ Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Thurlby Gull Roost
Hi Freddy

The Spanish and the French are attempting to eradicate Ruddies, but the UK is the main source population for such individuals. I know this is a very volatile subject which has been the subject of much legitmate ethical debate. Many people share Edmund's equally valid opinion that the Ruddies shouldn't have to pay the cost of man's folly. It is a choice between two 'evils' as it were, losing WHD as a genetically pure species (perhaps losing it full stop) and the wholesale slaughter of cuddly, bubbly Ruddy Ducks, coupled with the disturbance and bykill of other waterfowl species. However, the science behind the cull is solid and it does annoy me a bit when people claim this isn't the case. This from http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewc ... rcinvasive

'In 1982, ruddy ducks were first recorded in Spain and this species has now been recorded annually since 1991. At least 139 individuals have been recorded in a minimum of 43 different locations in Spain. Despite an active and well-organised control programme to cull ruddy ducks, 59 hybrids have been recorded on at least 23 sites (Hughes et al. 1999). The mating strategies of the two species are distinct and the male ruddy duck has an apparent mating advantage over the male white-headed duck. Male ruddy ducks are not territorial, but rather defend “revolving territories” around their mates. Unpaired males attempt persistently to mate with females of both their own and other species. Forced copulation by one or more males on lone females is common (Gray 1980). In contrast, male white-headed ducks form hierarchies, with dominant males forming stable pair bonds with one or more females (Torres et al. 1985) and defending territories of emergent vegetation (Amat and Sanchez 1982). In captivity, ruddy duck x white-headed duck hybrids are fertile to at least the third generation. There is a degree of uncertainty about how the genetic dynamic between the two species would develop if larger numbers of ruddy ducks were allowed to reach Spain. However, given the aggressive and promiscuous mating strategy of the ruddy duck, the extent of hybridisation is likely to increase.'

cheers

Alex


Freddy Johnson wrote:
Alex,
Yes I do believe in the POTENTIAL for extinction by introgression of the White-headed Duck, not that I am, nor anyone else is, in possession of the infallible data to fully support an inevitable introgressive extinction belief. I happen to agree with another LBC colleague with whom I have been in touch recently that there has to be some degree of management in all areas of Natural History in our own small ' British Isles '. If the White-headed Duck were a British breeding species, I could therefore at least understand a point of view for a British cull (not that I would agree with it).
However, the Spanish are great hunters and shooters and I would prefer the solution to be that any Ruddy Duck found in Spain could be shot but NO culling to be allowed in the UK. I also tend to think it's another case of the 'soft' Brits anxious to please. If the Spanish or French were asked to perform a similar action in their own countries the answer would probably be (in Spanish/French) - "You must be joking!"

Regards,

Freddy
Author:  Freddy Johnson [ Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Thurlby Gull Roost
Hey, guys! I think apologies are in order to David Jenkins. He was probably looking forward to some bird report follow-up to his post on the Thurlby Gull Roost instead of our relatively inconsequential tangential ramblings reference the potential extinction by introgression of the White-headed Duck in Spain as opposed to the inevitable extinction by ammunition of the Ruddy Duck in the UK.
Anyway, I think I can now hear the distant rumble of the LBC teletransporter system arriving to ferry us all off to the more appropriate pastures of the Lincs Bird Chat site.

Regards,

Freddy
PS. On reading the above, my wife has just said that I should try to talk English on my next post. Quite right! Then we could all relax.
Author:  David Jenkins [ Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thurlby Gull Roost
Just pleased I didn't mention any Cormorant numbers!!!!!

David Jenkins
Author:  Alex Lees [ Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thurlby Gull Roost
Back to Marston STW, this on Birdguides.com:

15:17 03/03/09 Red Kite Lincs Marston SW 14:00 one over marsh at 14:00, then flew over Barkston Village

is the second Marston 1st in almost as many weeks, also long overdue.... who was the lucky punter....
Author:  Rick Bennett [ Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Thurlby Gull Roost
I was driving down the A1 on the morning of the third and saw 1 kite about 5 miles south of Downtown and another a few miles further south.
That isn't far from Marston and is the furthest north I've seen kites on the A1. Cheers. Rick (with apologies to David)
Author:  Alex Lees [ Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thurlby Gull Roost
Hi Rick

I've seen Red Kites two miles either side of Marston - over my parent's garden in Foston and at Belton.... it was only a matter of time. So Black Redstart, Firecrest, Pied Flycatcher, Montagu's Harrier, Nuthatch, Crossbill, Yellow-browed Warbler, Bearded Tit, White-rumped Sandpiper and Green-winged Teal top of the list of next possibilities...

Alex
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