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| Blackwits gone ! http://lbcarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13455 |
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| Author: | Colin Smale [ Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Blackwits gone ! |
No black tailed godwits at all at Killingholme when there should have been 1/3000 in front of the hide. Did they just take the day off or has something happened on the Humber bank we know nothing about? Max 20 redshank in this hide pool but 50+ in next pool south. No blackwits and none seen on shoreline either. Unbelievable. One completely oiled (but could fly) redshank (see gallery) and one dead 'bird' in front of hide, could be a wader (longish legs). |
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| Author: | Russell Hayes [ Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Blackwits gone ! |
Colin, High tide was at 17:00pm so Godwits probably feeding out in the Humber while you were there. Russ |
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| Author: | Colin Smale [ Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Blackwits gone ! |
Hi Russ, they would have needed aqualungs then, tide was lapping on the shore. It does hit the shore line here earlier than it does at Grimsby/Cleethorpes. No blackwits were seen in the air or on the ground all the time I was there, till dusk. I am well used to those wits, they should have been at the hide, even ONE! |
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| Author: | Russell Hayes [ Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Blackwits gone ! |
It was just a thought Colin, I know that on previous visits there can be none for hours then thousands depending on the tides. If as you say you stayed till dusk then I do not know. Russ |
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| Author: | Ian Lee [ Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Blackwits gone ! |
On one visit last winter the whole flock flew from the river directly to the other side of the railway line. Not one on the reserve!. Regards, Ian |
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| Author: | Colin Smale [ Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Blackwits gone ! |
I have got to the bottom of it, the ringers chose that place of all peaceful/secure places to do some ringing and have spooked the whole damn lot. Now I am far from being an anti ringer, I am very interested in ringing results, especially recording the many colour-ringed Blackwits that roosted here but this is the most idiotic thing I have ever come across in the ringing world. Some folk came from well outside Lincolnshire to study these godwit and now there is not ONE godwit to be seen. Hopefully those that were not around when this foolishness happened will return and pull the others back, soon I hope. This kind of 'ringing' is not serious study, it is simply a form of 'collecting'. |
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| Author: | Stuart Britton [ Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Blackwits gone ! |
I understand from Colin that 10 Black-tailed Godwits were caught and fitted with radio tags. I will endeavour to find out who's project it is and its purpose. |
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| Author: | Dave Bromwich [ Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Blackwits gone ! |
Below is a reply from Dr Tom Cameron, University of Leeds, regarding the recent work at North Killingholme. I don't think we will get a better, more detailed and comprehensive response than this! A study was undertaken by myself with the support of the Humber Wader Ringing Group and Natural England to find out more about the Black tailed Godwits that use North Killingholme Haven Pits as a winter roost. The initial incentive for this study was that there was a feeling that the site was under pressure from industrial disturbance and various stakeholders wanted to know what role NKHP played in the spatial dynamics of this winter population of birds on the Humber. Specifically, from the WeBS data and from personal communication with Graham Catley we were aware that the Blackwits only use NKHP through to mid winter at which point they are thought to move in an easterly direction. One of the main roosting areas for these birds later in the winter is the heavily industrialised Grimsby dock. We wanted to know where else they might use later in the season, what level of fidelity they had to these sites and how frequently do birds switch their choice of roosting and feeding sites. NKHP is heavily protected, both legally and from visual disturbance, but other sites are not so. It is fair to ask what is the point of only protecting the NKHP roost so well if other equally important sites are not protected from disturbance. It was agreed two years ago that the only way to answer these questions would be information on the fine scale locations of the birds over shorter periods of time and space than WeBS data can provide. Remote sensing can provide this data but it is fraught with difficulties. The important point about this is that if were to go ahead with study it was important that we caught birds that we knew used NKHP in early-mid winter. The only way to do this is to catch birds at NKHP. Lincolnshire Wildlife Trust had many objections to this, including the issues of potential disturbance. For those reasons when we sought permission it was limited to a single attempt (i.e. no repeated visits), had to be during darkness and only when weather conditions were mild. We were given permission from the site owners, Natural England and after some badgering on my part, Lincs Wildlife Trust. Given your objections and some of the comments that have been forwarded to me about this I should state that I gain nothing from this. It was supposed to be a Masters project last year but due to permissions difficulties it was abandoned. I am now doing this work myself with some voluntary help. I never have had any intention of getting an output from this as the sample size is too small and the questions are basic applied problems and not fundamental science. I am involved in this because I was asked to look at it and I and others invested significant amounts of research cash in the project. The negative comment about the researchers being from outside Lincolnshire I will ignore as I am not aware of a research organisation inside Lincolnshire that is investing in conservation research on the Humber (Universities of Hull, Leeds, York and Durham are). It should also be noted that many people gain a lot of pleasure from observing colour ringed birds and some in the Lincolnshire community make their living from it. The presence of these birds depends wholly on the investment of the voluntary ringing groups. The Humber ringing group is voluntary and invests a great deal of time and money into providing these colour ringed marked Godwits and Redshank on the estuary. They know very well how these activities should be done and two members of the team for the NKHP catch were very highly qualified at an international level. So where do we stand. Well I think it is unfair to assume that the catch led to the birds abandoning NKHP in late November as they do this every year, or at least they have every year since 1998. It is possible of course, that the catch brought this date forward by a week to ten days. That is why we timed the catch date for the first suitable tide after the end of October; to make sure we tagged birds before they left the site this year and to make sure if we did change their behaviour we did not do it earlier in the season. However, that we changed bird behaviour so significantly from a single night’s catch would surprise me. It should also be noted that we also caught and leg ringed 186 Dunlin, 33 Redshank, 5 BH Gulls, 10 Blackwit, 1 Barwit and 3 starling. 8 of the 10 colour ringed Blackwits were fitted with a radio tag. Throughout the night of the 6th of November all the roosting birds remained on the site while the net workers walked on and off the site. Indeed several thousand Dunlin and at least a 1000 Blackwits stayed on the site until dawn in front of the hide. I am told this is a common response to humans at roosts after dark. A further congregation of Blackwits gathered east of our nets and stayed there until about 4am. I appreciate that some of you have concerns. I am surprised and concerned that given the availability of the WeBS data and the likelihood that many of you were involved in collecting it and know more about the Blackwits in this area than I do that a conclusion of ringing=site abandonment in November was reached. This is simply not the case. The birds were due to stop roosting at NKHP around this time. And if we brought this forward slightly, as long as it has no population level consequences, that is not something to get hung up about. The test will be whether they show similar dynamics to previous years, next year. Assuming we, collectively, decide not to repeat the study. I am also concerned that this discussion will lead to scorn to be poured upon LWT. This is entirely unfair. They did the right thing in allowing this project go ahead as although it is early days we have observed that the birds who roost on NKHP throughout the early Winter do not just go east and use Grimsby docs. We have repeated signal readings and observations of 5 of the 8 tagged birds on both the North and South Bank. Specifically at Spurn, Stallingborough, Grimsby, Pyewipe and Patrington/Welwick. NKHP is important but not on its own, only as part of a network of roosting and feeding sites. And we are learning the utility of remote sensing and it’s use on the Humber; both the good points and bad. I would argue that while NKHP has its problems for catching, the light pollution for example, it is worth LWT and the birding community supporting infrequent catch attempts at this site. However, if you are still convinced that this study is not worthy I am sure the peer pressure placed on LWT will lead to us not being allowed to work with them again. Yours Sincerely Dr Tom C Cameron University of Leeds |
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| Author: | Stuart Britton [ Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Blackwits gone ! |
As an active ringer, I was concerned by Colin's comments so I made enquiries and brought them to the attention of the parties concerned. Having read Dr Cameron's comprehensive reply I will let members draw their own conclusions whether "This kind of ringing is not a serious study - it is simply a form of collecting"! |
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| Author: | James Smith [ Wed Nov 24, 2010 6:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Blackwits gone ! |
I don't post on here very often, as I am a very infrequent birder these days (even though I regularly visit this site), but would like to add a small comment on this matter. My office is in the vicinity of 'Back o'Doigs' (Grimsby Docks for those not in the know) and for a few weeks I have had the pleasure of watching the flocks of Blackwits and Lapwings circling around when disturbed. However, I have noticed since the weekend that there only appear to be the Lapwings flighting not the BTGs. I suppose this has nothing to do with the subject of the post but I just thought it was an interesting coincidence. |
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| Author: | Andrew Chick [ Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Blackwits gone ! |
Just a quick 'thank you' to Tom for his comments, and his full explanation for the reasoning behind the ringing at NKHP. With the looming future Humber port development, independent research work of this nature is incredibly valuable when considering possible mitigation. This area of the Lincolnshire coast is under a lot of pressure from development, and ensuring that there is a future place for birdlife within the industrial coastal landscape has to be fully supported. Andrew |
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