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Pacific Golden Plover http://lbcarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21897	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Graham Catley [ Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Pacific Golden Plover
Neil Drinkall located a Pacific Golden Plover this morning in a grass field at Alkborough Flats amongst a flock of 3000 Golden Plover and 2000 Lapwings; we both managed to see the bird early afternoon but at a range of 500m and hence images are less than acceptable! being in winter plumage the bird is nothing like as striking as a summer adult and it was testament to the dedication ND puts into this site that he found this bird on such a cold day with poor visibility; the light did improve a little this afternoon before the snow storm; the whole flock flew up about 13:00 and although about 800 birds returned the PGP was not seen again until dark; the Golden Plovers on the upper estuary commute between different areas of the estuary and inland fields and so relocating the bird is not likely to be an easy task; if anyone goes to look in the next few days just beware that the hill down to the Flats lower car park may well be slippery if it freezes and it may be best to walk down the hill. Today the bird was in the grass field near the Trent Falls hide but clearly Goldies can be anywhere on the site and numbers have varied daily of late from as few as 300 to 3500 -- Link to video with iPhone and Swaro 70x95 scope below -- a few images on the blog later at pewit http://youtu.be/P9QF235jfVo

Author:	Graham Catley [ Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Pacific Golden Plover
Some question over ID so any comments welcome.

Author:	Graham Catley [ Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:07 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Pacific Golden Plover
Potentially the most interesting bird in Lincs for a few years and not a single response -- looks like this forum is almost dead in the water

Author:	Robert Carr [ Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Pacific Golden Plover
I would like to offer an alternative viewpoint, Graham, which is purely personal. What interests birders can vary widely: not everyone is interested in rare birds or the finer points of ID. For myself, I wouldn't say this is the most interesting bird in the county for many years. In addition I don't think I am competent to offer any constructive comments in this case due to a lack of experience and knowledge, both of which you obviously have. I'd be interested to read what you have to say on the matter. Finally, a lack of response doesn't mean that the forum is dead in the water. There are plenty of other postings on other topics, although I do accept that there a fewer these days, for a variety of reasons. Rob

Author:	Phil Hyde [ Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:01 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Pacific Golden Plover
Hi Graham, Notwithstanding the conditions, the video and photo's posted are difficult to cull any details from with regard to wing length and leg length. I can see a striking head pattern, but as I'm very good at misinterpreting other peoples photos (especially of birds I haven't seen) I couldn't offer any further comment. What did you make of the relative primary/tertial lengths, for instance? Who could see details sufficiently well to query the ID ? Congratulations to ND for finding the bird. Phil

Author:	John Clarkson [ Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Pacific Golden Plover
If experienced and knowledgeable observers like GPC and ND can't ID it in the field what's to add after viewing images that are "less than acceptable"? Potentially the most interesting bird in Lincs for a few years? May I remind the honourable member of Black-winged Pratincole, Pacific Swift, Two-barred Crossbill... John

Author:	Stuart Britton [ Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Pacific Golden Plover
Well said, Robert. I couldn't possibly have made any comment on the ID as I have no knowledge of the species whatsoever. We all have differing ornithological interests and skills.

Author:	Derick Evans [ Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Pacific Golden Plover
Robert Carr wrote: I would like to offer an alternative viewpoint, Graham, which is purely personal. What interests birders can vary widely: <snip> Finally, a lack of response doesn't mean that the forum is dead in the water. There are plenty of other postings on other topics, although I do accept that there a fewer these days, for a variety of reasons. Rob Possibly not 'dead' Rob but certainly not in good health! I noted that even the other topics you mentioned got very few responses. 'Its good to talk' but worry that social media may be killing forums..... Do hope I'm wrong.

Author:	Derick Evans [ Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Pacific Golden Plover
Had planned for a couple of visits looking for PGP around Alkborough but there's snow storms, gales & thunder & lighting forecast for N/Lincs overnight & most of tomorrow. So would appreciate any local forum members reporting GP flocks they see over w/end please.

Author:	James Siddle [ Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Pacific Golden Plover
I am assuming the grey underwing and axillaries have been seen and we are not dealing with a small, runty GP. I am also assuming the legs/feet in relation to the tail in flight was not noted or the call - all things we can't see in the images which would have made things simpler. Structurally, the bird doesn't look as robust as the AGPs I've seen (although my experience is limited to about 25-30 birds - In Canada and the UK) and fits better with the rather more delicate looking PGP (again my experience a bit limited; perhaps 2-300 birds in the UK, India and Australia, but none in recent years). I'd say the bird was a big 'leggy' for AGP too - but this is hard to tell. The yellowish wash to the super and the rather golden scaps (contrasting with the greyer wing coverts) again point to PGP. The primary projection (pp) is hard to tell, but really does look better for PGP in my opinion - AGPs always seem rather more attenuated. Ageing is important here as first-year PGPs have shorter pp than adults and thus adults can be a little more attenuated cf AGP The bill looks fairly consistently longish and thinish which I would take to mean more PGPish. I'd say PGP. James

Author:	Derick Evans [ Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Pacific Golden Plover
Latest report of PGP on Birdguides. 16:04 - 30/01/15 - Pacific Golden Plover - Lincs - Alkborough Flats.

Author:	Roy Harvey [ Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Pacific Golden Plover
That was a report of negative news Derick. Roy

Author:	Derick Evans [ Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Pacific Golden Plover
OK Roy. I copied & pasted report from birdguides recent reports webpage.

Author:	Graham Catley [ Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Pacific Golden Plover
Appreciate everyone has a different perspective on birds and birding but the forum does seem to me and many others to have declined into the odd what I have seen today post with little content in any discussion on any topic whether it be the breeding status of Marsh Tit or the ID of a plover which is a somewhat sad comment upon the social aspects of the LBC. Re the Pacific Goldy in winter plumage the reliance upon primary tertial ratios is rather less critical than in summer plumage as plumage features are distinctive. Had some very positive responses from stateside and people who know the two species in winter plumage. This bird appears to be an adult either attaining some black summer feathers or regaining some from last summer, PGP are known to retain some sp into Jan. interesting in terms of being totally unexpected and offering a challenge in bird ID not like the 3 sp mentioned that were a: all expected at the time when they occurred and b: relatively easy to ID but again a question of interest. Initially this morning the site was frozen out and only about 450 Goldies were on the ice. As the sun thawed off the fields late morning about 2000 Goldies came in but in spite of ND and myself searching through the birds for the rest of the day there was no sign of the PGP which was particularly frustrating as the birds were closer and in superb light today. Not a lot of other birders looking, well none actually, wonder how many birders would have been looking if the bird had been seen in Yorkshire or Norfolk?

Author:	Derick Evans [ Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Pacific Golden Plover
Graham Catley wrote: <snip> Not a lot of other birders looking, well none actually, wonder how many birders would have been looking if the bird had been seen in Yorkshire or Norfolk? I'd guess a lot Graham.

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