The Lincolnshire Bird Club :: View topic - Broad billed Sandpiper at Alkborough Flats

the cafe thats just opened to cater for birders/ramblers/visitors will be over whelmed with orders when a rarity turns up that they just wont be able to cope-i agree....

I had been hoping that GPC might comment on the Alkborough situation but have remembered that he is away for a few days. Much of Alkborough Flats is fenced off and designated 'private property', only those with permits for surveying, etc. have permission to enter. The Broad-billed Sandpiper was found on Friday evening well inside this private area and could not be seen from the public tracks. The warden was consulted on Saturday who confirmed that news of its presence should not be put out. After flying off at about 8.15 Friday evening the bird was not seen Saturday but was spotted again on Sunday - in exactly the same private area. It has not been seen since Sunday.
For information, GPC was not the finder of the Broad-billed Sandpiper.

This is certainly turning out to be an interesting topic.

It would be great to hear some answers from those 'behind the scenes'; i.e. those who are actually responsible for pointless suppression (not necessarily in this case).

Why is the area private in the first place? Why do some now have access to it and others don't? Why did the finder tresspass to correctly identify the bird? Surely if one or two are allowed to explore the site at will, it will make no difference if others do? Why has other stuff been suppressed in the past?

To all those individuals involved, perhaps this is your cue to speak (for once!).

Author:	Dean Eades [ Tue May 20, 2008 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Broad billed Sandpiper at Alkborough Flats
Another Bird suppressed at Alkborough - Friday -Sunday

Author:	blgp_birder [ Tue May 20, 2008 10:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Broad billed Sandpiper at Alkborough Flats
So why exactly is it that stuff is suppressed here? Anyone want to explain?

Author:	John T Goy [ Tue May 20, 2008 11:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Broad billed Sandpiper at Alkborough Flats
Have we now got another Triangle on the go??????? It would be interesting to hear from those who write the monthly report, to come on here and answer your question Josh.

Author:	Roger Hebb [ Thu May 22, 2008 12:15 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Broad billed Sandpiper at Alkborough Flats
Why is birds continually suppressed ? well here are the answers given: the car park is too small- i agree people in the village will be upset,if you park outside their house blocking the driveways,as you do,-i agree the cafe thats just opened to cater for birders/ramblers/visitors will be over whelmed with orders when a rarity turns up that they just wont be able to cope-i agree,so i agree with local people who find rare birds ,of their concerns and we should stop insinuating that they do not want anyone else to see them,..this is not the case... and we should respect their concerns regarding this site. ive had it put to me"well they enjoy rare birds put out by other birders"but keep theirs to themselves,I for one cannot believe that anyone in the birding world for one moment would stoop as low as that,so no the reasons above are valid and should be respected. there is also the fact that if a rare bird is found there and a major rainfall/storm occured and people could not get back into the village -the consequenses of non swimmers-not worth thinking of. im sure their is more reasons. so please if you find a rare bird down at alkboro flats think long and hard before letting anyone else know about it. Roger.

Author:	Paul French [ Thu May 22, 2008 8:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Broad billed Sandpiper at Alkborough Flats
Roger Hebb wrote: the cafe thats just opened to cater for birders/ramblers/visitors will be over whelmed with orders when a rarity turns up that they just wont be able to cope-i agree.... I'm not bothered if birders at Alkborough supress or not personally, but is one of the resasons given that local business does not want the increase in trade?! Have i understood that wrong, or are you/they saying that a cafe thats just opened to cater for birders/ramblers/visitors will not actually be able to cope with their target audience. Why? The Bluebell Cafe at Spurn seems to manage ok on a daily basis in the autumn, and lets face it, Spurn receives more birders on a regular basis than most other British sites. If a cafe runs out of chip butties, then they're off the menu for the rest of the day. Being eaten dry must be the dream of all cafe owners, so whats the problem? Most car parks are not big enough to cope with a major twitch (and i really don't think a Broad-billed Sand, nice as they are, constitutes a major twitch), the locals tend to make arrangements with a local field owner for paid parking on their field. Might not be an option there, but worth thinking about. Keeping the locals happy is another matter for which i have no easy solution. If its all public access, do you actually need to keep the locals happy? Just a thought. Bring on another Hud Wit... Cheers,

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Author:	blgp_birder [ Thu May 22, 2008 10:39 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Broad billed Sandpiper at Alkborough Flats
Roger, Your last sentance is hard to understand, and your attitude is just the type that I wish didn't exist in birding. The only one of your reasons that is valid is the lack of parking space for visitors; then again Broad-billed Sandpiper isn't that 'big' a bird so the chances are that there wouldn't be many cars parking there anyway. Besides, not many people are going to be irrational enough to block people's driveways (although it does occasionally happen and those who do such a thing should accept full responsibility). Seriously what kind of joke is it to try and claim to other intelligent adults on this forum that the cafe would not be able to cope and wouldn't want the hassle?! Have you even asked the owners about such a situation? As Paul says, a cafe like this would surely welcome a small to medium-sized influx of birders and a temporary upturn in trade; it's not as if a Broad-billed Sand is going to attract four-figure totals of people - this is no Willet/Hudwit/Tattler we are talking about here. Your storm situation is unrealistic. If foul weather is forecast, people can easily make the decision as to head to Alkborough or not. I suspect that those who are less fortunate than ourselves when it comes to swimming would not run the risk before setting out. Was there a storm that caused flooding whilst the Broad-billed Sand was present? I don't think there was... So I'd like to finish by contrasting with Roger has said - if you find a rare bird at Alkborough Flats, or any other place, don't be lured in to suppression by people with attitudes such as the one above - I thought this was a thing of the past, but obviously not. Keep on reporting birds, and share them with others - then there is no chance of being brandished selfish Cheers Josh

Author:	Roy Harvey [ Thu May 22, 2008 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Broad billed Sandpiper at Alkborough Flats
I had been hoping that GPC might comment on the Alkborough situation but have remembered that he is away for a few days. Much of Alkborough Flats is fenced off and designated 'private property', only those with permits for surveying, etc. have permission to enter. The Broad-billed Sandpiper was found on Friday evening well inside this private area and could not be seen from the public tracks. The warden was consulted on Saturday who confirmed that news of its presence should not be put out. After flying off at about 8.15 Friday evening the bird was not seen Saturday but was spotted again on Sunday - in exactly the same private area. It has not been seen since Sunday. For information, GPC was not the finder of the Broad-billed Sandpiper. Roy.

Author:	blgp_birder [ Thu May 22, 2008 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Broad billed Sandpiper at Alkborough Flats
Roy Harvey wrote: I had been hoping that GPC might comment on the Alkborough situation but have remembered that he is away for a few days. Much of Alkborough Flats is fenced off and designated 'private property', only those with permits for surveying, etc. have permission to enter. The Broad-billed Sandpiper was found on Friday evening well inside this private area and could not be seen from the public tracks. The warden was consulted on Saturday who confirmed that news of its presence should not be put out. After flying off at about 8.15 Friday evening the bird was not seen Saturday but was spotted again on Sunday - in exactly the same private area. It has not been seen since Sunday. For information, GPC was not the finder of the Broad-billed Sandpiper. Thanks Roy for clearing that one up. At least this is a genuine reason for keeping the bird quiet - best not to disturb an area which presumably has ground-nesting birds.

Author:	Roy Harvey [ Thu May 22, 2008 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Broad billed Sandpiper at Alkborough Flats
Josh, see PM, Roy

Author:	Roger Hebb [ Thu May 22, 2008 6:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Broad billed Sandpiper at Alkborough Flats
hi all, Some of my comments were tonque-in -cheek,the storm was a joke,anyone who knows me better would know most of it was done in a humerous vein,i.e,the cafe,another lighthearted remark, I did it cos im bored of this alkborough flats situation and what roy has just stated in my mind makes things even worse!!!(nothing against roy,just the situation outlined by him-roy is one of the nicest guys in the birding world))Private areas with a priveliged few getting permits to go on them!!!,if an area needs protection,fair enough im all for that ,,but these birders with permits i guess will be constantly going over the area in search of rarities. I cant get my head round that at all,its a weird situation.its been like it from day one. I only go once in a blue moon because of all this strange stuff. Roger.

Author:	Roger Hebb [ Thu May 22, 2008 11:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Broad billed Sandpiper at Alkborough Flats
josh see pm,rog.

Author:	blgp_birder [ Fri May 23, 2008 12:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Broad billed Sandpiper at Alkborough Flats
This is certainly turning out to be an interesting topic. It would be great to hear some answers from those 'behind the scenes'; i.e. those who are actually responsible for pointless suppression (not necessarily in this case). Why is the area private in the first place? Why do some now have access to it and others don't? Why did the finder tresspass to correctly identify the bird? Surely if one or two are allowed to explore the site at will, it will make no difference if others do? Why has other stuff been suppressed in the past? To all those individuals involved, perhaps this is your cue to speak (for once!).

Author:	John T Goy [ Fri May 23, 2008 12:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Broad billed Sandpiper at Alkborough Flats
blgp_birder wrote: This is certainly turning out to be an interesting topic. It would be great to hear some answers from those 'behind the scenes'; i.e. those who are actually responsible for pointless suppression (not necessarily in this case). Why is the area private in the first place? Why do some now have access to it and others don't? Why did the finder tresspass to correctly identify the bird? Surely if one or two are allowed to explore the site at will, it will make no difference if others do? Why has other stuff been suppressed in the past? To all those individuals involved, perhaps this is your cue to speak (for once!). Until those involved come on here and put the record straight, we will have to come to our own conclusions! Have they got something to hide? If so what? Who was it that found the bird? And why haven't they been on here and given the reason for keeping quiet? Come on put us out of our misery! Ah well, it looks like we have yet another mystery that will never get solved, sad but true... Toodle pip

Author:	Roger Hebb [ Sat May 24, 2008 12:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Broad billed Sandpiper at Alkborough Flats
hi, ive decided to delete my last post,as im bored with it all,just want to get on birding elswhere!!!.ive had my fill,i wont comment anymore on this topic.EVER!!!. Roger Hebb.Edited once.

Author:	Graham Catley [ Sat May 24, 2008 11:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Broad billed Sandpiper at Alkborough Flats
I had decided not to respond to this diatribe but as several other birders have also been implicated I am forwarding a response which may not be the most diplomatic or rational but a number of people are becoming rather irritated by the frequent sniping and irrational criticism of birders in the north-west of the county. News of the BBS at Alkborough was not released to a general audience as there were practical and justifiable reasons which I do not feel obligated to go into on this forum which seems to have lost most of its rationality. It has been suggested that I produce the list which appears below to demonstrate that birders who found and saw the BBS have over the last ten years also found rather a lot of rare birds in the county and have made all of these instantly available to all comers; there have been two instances at Alkborough where it has not been possible to release information on rare birds the Buff-breast, a later bird at Donna Nook found by CN and ND was immediately available in the same autumn, and the BBS. Rational and sensible birders will realize that there are very rarely instances when news of a rare bird simply cannot be put out to everyone and the finder(s) of a rare bird always have the last word on whether information is released. It is intended to put into place a large twitch management plan at the site in the event of a major rarity occurring in the future but I doubt if there will be a rush to produce a vote of thanks if that should occur. From the list below, which is not exhaustive and excludes scarce migrants like Pallas's Warblers, birders in the county have a clear choice; either accept that you will see 95% of the birds found by the birders involved and respect the necessity to keep odd birds out of the public domain or we could just reverse the 95% - 5% ratios. Alternatively go out and find your own birds. This is our last word on the subject. Thankyou 1997 American Wigeon Readâ€™s Island October Green-winged Teal Readâ€™s Island December Blue-winged Teal Messingham March American Golden Plover Readâ€™s Island July - August 1998 White-rumped Sandpiper Readâ€™s Island August Little Swift Barton June Bluethroat Pyes Hall October 2000 Green-winged Teal Barton April Ring-necked Duck Barton 2 November Broad-billed Sandpiper Readâ€™s Island May Tawny Pipit Rimac September 2001 Green-winged Teal Barton January Ring-necked Duck Baton May - June Pectoral Sandpiper Watersâ€™ Edge September 2002 Rossâ€™s Goose Winterton November Rough-legged Buzzard Worlaby Carrs November - 2003 Pectoral Sandpiper Watersâ€™ Edge Barton August Greenish Warbler Pyes Hall September 2003 Ring-necked Duck male Barton May - June Red-footed Falcon Barrow July Cettiâ€™s Warbler 3 Barton Feb - March Booted Warbler Donna Nook September 2004 Little Bittern Messingham June Red-rumped Swallow 2 Barton May Lesser Scaup Barton April 2005 Pectoral Sandpiper Watersâ€™ Edge September Richardâ€™s Pipit Pyes Hall October Greenish Warbler Saltfleet September 2006 Black-winged Stilt 3 Barton Caspian Gull 3 Barton Roseate Tern 3 Horseshoe Point White-winged Black Tern Barton May Great Reed Warbler Barton June Arctic Redpoll Barton March 2007 Spoonbill 5 Alkborough Flats Green-winged Teal Alkborough Flats American Golden Plover 2 East Butterwick Cettiâ€™s Warbler 3 Barton 1 Messingham 2008 Night Heron far Ings April

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