The Lincolnshire Bird Club
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Messingham Sand Quarry 17/6/08
http://lbcarchive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8046		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Alan Hudson [ Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Messingham Sand Quarry 17/6/08
A superb few hours but reluctant to name some of the birds due to recent controversy there so -

1 Red Kite ( good flight views and unlikely to be breeding)
5 Buzzard
3 Great Spotted Woodpeck
2 Egyptian Goose
Numerous Blackcap, Chiffchaff, Willow Warbler
2 Whitethroat
8 Common Tern + young
9 x Schedule 1 Birds
2 x Schedule 1 Birds
1 x Schedule 1 Bird
1 x Schedule 1 Bird
2 x Schedule 1 Birds

This does comply with policy even though some of these birds are named by other recorders at other sites!!!
Author:  Chris Atkin [ Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Messingham Sand Quarry 17/6/08
Though the Schedule 1 species haven't been listed here, aren't we still bringing attention to the existence of rare/scarce birds that are possibly breeding on the reserve? - surely during the breeding season it is best to not publically mention them at all.

regards

Chris
Author:  Alan Hudson [ Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Messingham Sand Quarry 17/6/08
Exactly !! and that is why I did it just to show how absurd this is all getting. As there are almost 100 species listed in Schedule 1 then if follows that during the entire breeding season all mention of birds such as Red Kite, Crossbill, Harriers, Little Ringed Plovers etc, etc should not be broadcast as who knows where they are breeding.
Author:  Chris Atkin [ Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Messingham Sand Quarry 17/6/08
I take your point Alan, though I can't see anything within the policy that simply says if it's a Schedule 1 species it can't be reported within the breeding season.

i think we have to apply common sense on this one. I would base my decision on what to report/not report in accordance to the breeding status on that particular species within the county & UK.

I would not disclose any breeding/potential breeding Marsh Harriers or Red Kites for example but certain other Schedule 1 species such as Kingfisher, I would list in a report.
If it was clear a rare or scarce species was not breeding nor a potential breeder within the area then I don't see a problem either.

If anyone was unsure what to report, then there are plenty of experienced birders in the county to ask for advice.

regards

Chris
Author:  Alastair Carr [ Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Messingham Sand Quarry 17/6/08
This is getting silly, I grant you, but if there is less than a certain number breeding in the county, do you think that would be a limit on whether we post things or not?
Author:  Chris Atkin [ Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Messingham Sand Quarry 17/6/08
It's quite a difficult subject to apply a hard rule to. Take for example Redstart - it's a species that breeds in reasonable numbers on a national scale but is a rare breeder in the county - I'm sure that if anyone posted details of Redstarts on suitable breeding habitat during the breeding season in Lincs then it would most likely be removed.
Looks like this subject is going to provide a healthy debate :)

regards

Chris
Author:  Terence Whalin [ Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Messingham Sand Quarry 17/6/08
I agree with all the above but all that is required is common sense for example, chris's comments about redstart is a perfect case in question. Just think what it is relative to the county but more importantly where it is, i can see no harm reporting Bittern at Far ings, if it is a properly wardened site that you can visit and see the sightings chalked on a blackboard as you enter the reserve then i think that is ok. The same report about the same species coming from an unprotected site in suitable breeding habitat is not ok, common sense really but it is a minefield but all this healthy debate is good for conservation in general.
I am sure this one will run on a bit so lets hope the admin team let it continue, ps i thought chris's sign off ( birding the barren wastelands of lincs ) is very appropriate it has been pretty dire this spring around my patch with just the odd exception.

Terry Whalin
Author:  Les Carter [ Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Messingham Sand Quarry 17/6/08
I was going to let this matter go, but under the circumstances , i am going to bring this matter forward. I was pulled up for mentioning woodlarks on the internet, i apologised at the time, but looking into the matter i should not have done.

no.1 the birds were seen on a nature reserve
no.2 it is manned 24hrs by a warden
no.3 there are notice boards advertising the fact that the birds are present
no.4 it is also on the lincolnshire wildlife trust website that the birds are present on the said nature reserve
no.5 the new spring/summer magazine on page 7 , a photagraph of a woodlark and just above the photograph it tells you where you can see them.
no.6 it is pointless telling me not to say anything about them , when they are advertised locally!! i see other misdemaenors on bird reports , but nothing is said. I suggest the officers of the club start looking at this matter as it seems to be getting ouy of hand
Author:  Colin and Sheila Jennings [ Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Messingham Sand Quarry 17/6/08
Les Carter wrote:
I was going to let this matter go, but under the circumstances , i am going to bring this matter forward. I was pulled up for mentioning woodlarks on the internet, i apologised at the time, but looking into the matter i should not have done.

no.1 the birds were seen on a nature reserve
no.2 it is manned 24hrs by a warden
no.3 there are notice boards advertising the fact that the birds are present
no.4 it is also on the lincolnshire wildlife trust website that the birds are present on the said nature reserve
no.5 the new spring/summer magazine on page 7 , a photagraph of a woodlark and just above the photograph it tells you where you can see them.
no.6 it is pointless telling me not to say anything about them , when they are advertised locally!! i see other misdemaenors on bird reports , but nothing is said. I suggest the officers of the club start looking at this matter as it seems to be getting ouy of hand


In response to Les Carter I would like to point out that it is the policy of LBC not to reveal the presence of rare breeding birds in the county during the breeding season and the County Recorder is fully in agreement with this.

In answer to the points Les raised;
1. There are rare birds breeding on other nature reserves in the county and their presence is rightly kept confidential.
3, 4 and 5. Perhaps it should be considered that LWT are at fault here not LBC.
6. I can't agree that it's pointless asking people not to disclose the location of a rare breeding bird, it seems eminently sensible to me.

Please remember that if anyone finds a rare bird breeding in the county don't ring Birdguides better to contact the County Recorder or RSPB.

I must mention here that this is my personal opinion and I haven't consulted any other system administrators.

Regards,

Colin Jennings
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