The Lincolnshire Bird Club

It occurs to me, after reading several recent comments placed on the 'Sightings' board by 'Professional' birders towards their 'Amateur' counterparts, that we ought to have two 'sightings' boards. One for the Twitch or more unusual birds and the other for the 'Dross' as Steve so eloquently put it.

Either that or the experts learn to wind their necks in and remember the days that to them all gulls were seagulls and wouldn't know a Sabine's if it pinched their chips down Cleethorpes Seafront.

Surely, all bird sightings that are recorded are useful for the LBC and other interested parties. If people stop recording or being interested in the common stuff then it will be more difficult to notice downturns in numbers in species such as the House Sparrow.

James,

Well put!

Now you have lit the blue-touch paper let's wait for the fireworks to go off.

Indeed James systematic recording of common birds from distinct areas can be useful over protracted time periods but as someone who has written a few county reports and numerous other reports and papers I can state that odd records from an area without limits are in actual fact worth very little to anyone unless they are used to suggest a subject for further research;
as an example let us consider a record of 11 Blue Tits from Barton pits on November 20th (these are all made up examples)---a) Barton pits is a rather big area and without a specific reference point could refer to anywhere within 3-4 square miles; b) within that area there may well be in the order of 70-80 breeding pairs of Blue Tits; if each reared an average of 5 young per year at the end of the breeding season there would be about 500 Blue Tits in the area--even allowing for post breeding losses 300 or so would be around in November so even though seeing 11 together may warrant a note in the note book is it actually of any use or relevance to any report or study? Multiply up that number of Blue Tits by the number of 10km squares in Lincolnshire and how any Blue Tits are we taking about and how relevant is a sighting of 11 of those 3-400,000? Now if you then had a defined 2km square area in which you recorded Blue Tits say even once a month for the whole year following a set route on each visit then some variations in numbers may become evident and a relevant result would be obtained.
On the other side of the coin simply only recording the odd Yellow-browed Warbler and never mentioning anything else is just as useless to a full county report but if its location and dates of occurrence are noted then at least it is definite information which is there for comparative analysis.
We know that all people do not have the time or inclination to undertake frequent survey type birding but there are valid reasons why people with extensive experience simply do not record what they know to be common and widespread species on a one off occurrence/location because the record would be virtually worthless. This is not to decry people's own records which are personal to them and are part of their own birding experience. I note down Coal Tits in my garden but I don't actually think that many people on the forum would be interested to know how many I have seen on which days of the year. People who are new to birding will take time to understand just what is common and what is not in different parts of Lincs for example but it does pay to get hold of an old County Bird Report (they are all old now) prior to 1996 and just look through at what species get mentioned from where and it will shed a lot of light on species abundance and distribution.
And none of this is meant to be critical just an explanation! Roger!

This is not a critisism, but when I was being taught the art of creative writing, it was advisable to use short paragraphs, thereby keeping the reader interested.

By the time I'd reached the tenth line I was beginning to think I was listening one of Roger's monologues!

Forty plus lines without a double space is far too much, especially if you want the reader to take on board what you are saying.

James,

I think it is evident that the 'dross' sightings should all now go to the CHAT Forum ? The problem is in identifying what birds are in-scope - one man's dross is another man's treasure? I for one would never in a million years label my nesting Barn Owls as dross but I can sort of appreciate why some readers would not be interested in them.

I joined the forum as an 'amateur' bird watcher - someone who gets a real 'kick' out of everyday sightings and goings on in my back yard - hoping to share some of this with fellow beings in the Lincs area - hoping that LBC and it's forums would be the place to do it.

Now I am beginning to appreciate what makes the forum tick and understand that it will be a pure miracle if I ever get to see a bird worthy of the sightings forum, and even then I would probably have mis-identified, so no postings in that forum from me for the forseeable.

The CHAT forum could be my outlet, I don't get out and about a great deal with other bird watchers so this could be the place to get to know you all a bit better and share experiences - except according to some, nobody is really interested in what goes on in that forum! I am fairly thick skinned so I don't mind if what I have to say out of my amateur ignorance is mocked or ridiculed by others, all adds to the variety, but not sure I want to spend time compiling a post if no-one is going to take the time to read or the effort to respond.

Perhaps the best thing would be to lay low for a while, become yet another of the silent majority, read the posts, see how this place evolves and re-evaluate whether I represent the type of individual that forms the core membership of LBC.

As a relatively new comer to the forum, 1 post to date, I am in total agreement with mark and james regarding posting sightings which to me are note worthy but receive sarcastic comments from a minority of twitchers/twits who no doubt sample JS to much for their own good

Having viewed the web site as a non member for several months and found it extremely interesting I paid my membership fee to help fund the work done by the forum, was it money well spent

max's comments in reply to the trilogy on "tits" was again spot on and I also gave up reading it after several lines of drivel

I accept all twitchers are not moronic but the minority will soon have us amateurs deserting the forum if treated like "dross" much longer

rob stewart

That was an interesting article by Graham Catley. I have often wondered about the relevence of records. After all they are just a brief glimpse of a place and a moment in time. Turn your head one way instead of another and that record could be entirely different. Some times it is just a matter of being in the right place at the right time

For example twice I have been to Worlaby to see the owls in the last week and a bit. The first week I had to leave before they appeared - did they appear or not. To me they didn't. My records for the 17th of November show a brief glimpse of two barn owls (perhaps the same). Last Sunday (25th) owls seemed to be everywhere

Just to compound the issue I when I got home I did look up Short Eared Owls in old Lincolnshire Bird Reports. Were any seen at Worlaby in the early 90's? - definately not or not according to the reports. In fact after quick scans I have yet to find a mention of Worlaby as a location but obviously it was.

So which of these records is a true reflection of what was there? SEO seem to like Worlaby but are they doing well in the county or have they abandoned other areas or is it a just a matter of more observers?

Graham is right; only time and long term observation will give a clear indication of the true state of nature

I think i posted something a little while ago about certain replies by people, and was told that I basically needed to get a sense of humour. I do have a sense of humour but some of the replies IMO are out of order and not in the slightest bit funny.

Anyway I digress. The Sighting part of the forum says underneath "Report ALL Lincs bird sighting here" this to me means ALL bird sightings and should include common species as well as the rarer ones. Surely the site isn't just for those who like to Twitch is it? I'm not a twitcher and still get a buzz out of seeing even common species such as Buzzard, although others may be bored with such sightings i am not.

In short there is no need to be rube towards others just because their sightings may not be deemed "important" enough.

John

_________________
TAKE ONLY PHOTOGRAPHS, LEAVE ONLY FOOTPRINTS

Did you notice the very last word/name in Graham's comments!

I think that those who contribute to or read the Forum regularly will realize that it is quite "twitcher" orientated. All records are valuable provided that numbers of individual species are given, rather than a list of species seen. I am 99% ringing orientated and there is a section for such information so I'm quite happy. There is ample room on these Forums for EVERYONE so keep contributing your sixpennyworth and take no notice of the irrelevant comments that may appear.

I think people's garden records and sightings of common birds are interesting and also useful, especially for people who are new to birding who look at the web site, and these records will therefore give them an idea of what to look for in their particular area. I appreciate that it is difficult to accommodate both amateurs and more experienced birders, but yet again it comes down to all of us helping each other out and sharing our knowledge.
If in doubt read the post subject, if it doesn't interest you don't read it!

Libby.

Just to compound the issue I when I got home I did look up Short Eared Owls in old Lincolnshire Bird Reports. Were any seen at Worlaby in the early 90's? - definately not or not according to the reports. In fact after quick scans I have yet to find a mention of Worlaby as a location but obviously it was.

Worlaby Carrs was there as a place in the 1990's but the farm was owned by a different company than today; for the last 5 years the company which owns all of the land from the village to the Ancholme has entered into various levels of the Countryside Stewardship scheme which has led to the establishment of 130ha of restored wet grassland, extensive areas of wild bird cover and a vast array of 6m margins all of which have attracted birds to the area and hence the recent interest in the site. In addition the farm is used as a winter shoot and thus there are game strips and areas of rough ground left for Pheasants and partidges which also add to the diversity of the site. Because there is all this habitat at Worlaby and virtually none on the adjacent farms to the north this is why there is such a recent concentration of SEO's there etc; in the early 90's if you check the reports you will see that there was a large 4 year set-aside in Bonby Carrs which held up to 9 SEO's, LEO, 3-4 Barn Owls and 4 different Hen Harriers; the sites are not specific it is the habitat which is needed;

sorry this has no para breaks must get back to my English writing classes[/quote][quote][/quote]

GPC,

You would never find the time to go back to writing classes

What we must remember is that it is acommon love of birds that unites us. It should not divide us.

If you put records of common species on the forum and people are rude to you, it's nothing to do with them being twitchers, their expertise in birding or anything similar. It's to do with an absence of good manners! There are two or three people on this board who can be quite offensive, which I (and most others I'm sure) find most frustrating, as there is no reason at all why the forum couldn't be a friendly and interesting place to post with room for people of all abilities and interests.

It's obvious that on a birding forum there will be everything from beginners to experts, and it is also obvious that there should be no reason for one to belittle the other.

If you are the victim of an offensive poster, the best thing to do is accept that it's a fact of life that every village has it's idiot, and don't get involved!