The Lincolnshire Bird Club

I have to laugh at Alex now,im sorry but this is getting rather too silly,as per quote in one of the monty python shows.
Have you a phobia called gosaphobia??.
As you have now aimed all your firepower on the stenigot birds,...yes i thought that stenigot thing might be a nuisance to you,you"ve now come up with,escaped birds..unbelievable!!!!falconers birds,nothing is ever going to be right as far as Goshawks sightings in lincs is concerned.
I totally give up on this.
Roger Hebb.

I have just checked my notebook for this month, I have got 38 entries. Several are one off records (e.g. Red Kite over A1 and Pink foot’s over house) but the rest are birding trips, vantage point surveys and BTO Atlas work – total time spent bird watching in Lincs this month to date is approx. 28 hours.

I guess January was an average ‘birding’ month for me. I have lived in Lincolnshire 15 year (180 months – do the sums) and still need Goshawk for my Lincolnshire list!

Prior to living in Lincs I was a Bedfordshire birder, and I saw Goshawk in Beds just the once – a day that I can still remembers! However, I have been to Mayday Farm (in the Breck’s) and seen Goshawk on several dozen occasions, often stopping off on the way to or way back from the North Norfolk coast.

Interestingly I keep a Western Palaearctic bird list (sent to me in the early 90’s by BB magazine) Very unconventionally; I have ticked off all the birds I have ever seen but not necessarily having seen them in the WP (e.g. Amur Falcon – China and Verreaux’s Africa etc.. even seen Levant’s of which I am very proud). I only need two more birds of prey to complete that part of the WP list – Gyrfalcon and Sooty Falcon (and I have been to both Iceland and Israel and dipped both – DOH!).

So what is my point.... Well I think I am more likely to tick Gyrfalcon (a long distant migrant that is likely to be twitchable one day) in Lincolnshire long before I see a Goshawk in Lincolnshire? Goshawks are a very rare bird in Lincolnshire! I don’t doubt they have been recorded, and that records are genuine – I just seem to be in the ‘subset’ of birder who never see them?

Checking http://www.lincsbirdclub.co.uk/lists/Li ... isters.xls it would interesting to know how long Roy Harvey and Andy Sims (sorry to mention you by name!) have spent birding in Lincolnshire, and if they are still part of the exclusive subset?

Andrew

PS I do have a DSLR

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Andrew Chick
Website: http://www.forktail.co.uk/

To answer your question Andrew, I have lived in Lincs. since 1964 and have not yet seen a Goshawk.
I note that others with big county lists also still need Gos. - Wayne Gillatt, Steve Routledge, Dave Jenkins, Rick Bennett, etc.

Roy.

I have, but it was on a National Geographic programme - does that count?

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Thanks a chick for your comments on genuine records etc,Well my only advice to those that have not seen one is to spend hours and hours over many years in likely spots and if your lucky you may see one ,likely spots???e.Gokewell priory area of Broughton,any broughton area,twigmoor,Manton end of in particular,laughton forest is possible,i think john h had one there too,msq,blacktoft sands,and if after all that time (35 yrs+)you may just get up to 1-3 birds like me,and dave johnson,alan hudson and carol hudson,john Harriman,yes you might see one,ive no idea whether you will be spotting a paasing throu bird or breeding.
Im fed up in lincs of Those that Havent seen Gossys not believing the ones that have!!!.
We are not birders just starting out,we are not going throu the seeing sparrowhawks phase.
Weve all seen more sparrowhawks than had hot dinners,weve all seen goshawks in breeding areas,for me,in derbyshire,yorkshire,norfolk,in the south west at the great raptor watchpoint,cant remember its name,on holiday saw them every day,with dave at rivelin valley also,.we do not claim Goshawks lightly,we make sure all the criterea has been met as per my details in an earlier post and more besides,i enjoy spending hours scanning for raptors,i believe Steve Routledge does also,hes the next likelist candidate to get one at Worlaby or anywhere beacause of the Raptor focus he has,one was reportedly seen by several birders just a few years back at w carrs.A lot of Birders do not Raptor hunt like we do,i know alan loves nothing more and carol,of spending hours at messingham and blacktoft,with hot flasks of tea at hand,we enjoyed a Red kite there last year,most birders do not even get that at Msq.Also Roy just because someboby s got a big county list is not relevant to raptor watching,probably goes against them!!,as their that busy racing round after rarities they do not spend enuogh time in good raptor spots.
Said enuff on this.
Rog.

Rog!

The Stenigot birds are the 'proof of the pudding' as it were, they were multi-observed and refindable. On current knowledge the entire breeding population of Goshawks in the UK is descended from captive-bred birds. They retain dual A/C status on the British List. So, I’m not sure what your point is? The question I was raising was whether they were likely to be escapes or the first or second generation progeny of escapes! This is an issue as people tend to ‘count’ populations that are established and self-sustaining. There remains the possibility that they could have been a pair of Continental immigrants – a pair of Red Kites bred in East Anglia several years back (preceding the reintroduction event) for instance.

The following are all the Lincs records that made it onto the Birdguides database:

14:53 02/03/06 Goshawk Lincs West Ashby 12:45 one feeding on feral pigeon on setaside the flew to nearby treelined river bank at 12:45 TF268713
13:54 11/02/06 Goshawk Lincs Gibraltar Point NNR 09:00 two flew south this morning; also ringtail Hen Harrier, female Merlin, 15 Snow Bunting, 4 Barn Owl and 510 Pink-footed Geese flew west
10:33 11/09/05 Goshawk Lincs Anwick Fen 10:00 one flew low south over the village church mid-morning
16:11 16/04/05 Goshawk Lincs Rimac one again at Seaview Farm
14:28 16/04/05 Goshawk Lincs Rimac 14:15 one still by Seaview Farm mid-afternoon
13:11 16/04/05 Goshawk Lincs Rimac 12:10 one flew past north along coast early afternoon and later re-appeared by Seaview Farm at 12:45 plus a Buzzard
12:16 17/01/04 Goshawk Lincs Baston & Langtoft Pits immature female of unknown origin still in the area this morning
16:34 21/12/03 Goshawk Lincs Baston & Langtoft Pits 14:15 one showed well briefly on the ground
14:52 21/12/03 Goshawk Lincs Baston & Langtoft Pits one reported flying north at 14:15
15:55 06/12/03 Goshawk Lincs Scunthorpe 08:50 female of unknown origin for 2 minutes in private garden at Lime Grove; mobbed by Crows, Magpies, Gulls and Sparrowhawk before flying off high east
18:59 19/10/03 Goshawk Lincs Broughton male over today, also female Marsh Harrier and 297 Pink-feet south
18:28 03/03/03 Goshawk Lincs Worlaby Carrs 02/03/03 male over the railway, also 3 Short-eared Owls, 15 Pintail and 4 Goosanders on the river
18:31 24/12/01 Goshawk Lincs Gokewell male soaring briefly near the Priory with 2 Common Buzzards before drifting off east
22:19 22/10/01 Goshawk Lincs Gokewell male seen today
21:37 03/09/01 Goshawk Lincs Gokewell female over, plus Peregrine Falcon, male Marsh Harrier and 8 Common Buzzards

The Rimac record is there, this bird was evidently quite easily twitchable, what was the age of this bird? Alan’s (Ball) point about known escapes is a good one – we could be missing Goshawks in the south of the county, but it is possible to relocate these birds once you know where they are. Quite a few people saw the known escape at Kirby on Bain I believe, it was displaying regularly?

Cheers

Alex
Ps. Alan (Hudson) – submit the record, sounds like you saw all the salient features, the last thing I want to do is occlude the status of the species in Lincs, only by gathering together all the information will we have an idea of the species’ status!

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Dr Alexander C. Lees
Lecturer in tropical ecology
Manchester Metropolitan University

Lab Associate
Cornell Lab of Ornithology,
Cornell University

http://www.freewebs.com/alexlees/index.htm
@Alexander_Lees

'Also Roy just because someboby s got a big county list is not relevant to raptor watching,probably goes against them!!,as their that busy racing round after rarities they do not spend enuogh time in good raptor spots'.

Roger,
If only we could spend the bulk of our time 'racing round after rarities! By definition, rare birds turn up very infrequently. In a good year I am able to film about 50 rare & scarce birds in Lincolnshire & neighbouring counties. For the rest of the time, like many other people with a decent sized Lincs. list, I am out in the field spending hundreds of hours walking and looking on the Lincolnshire Wolds. The fact is that, thus far, I have not been lucky enough to see a Goshawk.
Roy

hi alex and Roy,
Hope weve reached some common ground now/what i actually meant Roy was not just twitching birds but going to likely spots for raritys looking for them on a constant basis,sure escapes will occur,anyhow lets hope more birders get to see definite sightings of this hotly contested bird of prey in the future.
yours,
Roger.

Indeed, Graham C. is around but apparently maintaining a low profile on this thread. It would be interesting to know where and when he saw his Goshawk(s) in the county (per the excel spreadsheet). I was talking to Andy yesterday about the possibility of Goshawk records from all the Vantage Point surveys done as environmental impact assessment work. Most of this information will not be available publicly until declassified but it would be interesting to know what has been seen. Likewise we are in the dark about any Goshawk records submitted to the county rarities committee in recent years?

cheers

Alex

ps Rog, what about the aliens and big black cats?

_________________
Dr Alexander C. Lees
Lecturer in tropical ecology
Manchester Metropolitan University

Lab Associate
Cornell Lab of Ornithology,
Cornell University

http://www.freewebs.com/alexlees/index.htm
@Alexander_Lees

hi just slight edited my last e-mail on a r harvey point while yours came throu.
Well my sister and brother in law saw a definite black cat,a big one i mean between barton and s ferriby,it was in the middle of the road stood there momentarily stared straight at them approaching before leaping over a largish hedgrow.
and my brother has seen a ufo over lincoln.
my grandmother saw a roman soldier walk throu a wall in lincoln.
all true,
heading for the shelter right now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

Hi Andy and Alex,

In answer to your questions.

I have been birding in Lincolnshire since 1972 and the only Goshawk I have seen in Lincs in these 37 years has been a bird with jesses over Fulsby wood, near Kirkby pits.

For the last 8 years I have been doing ecological surveys with a lot of Vp's carried out and the only rare bird of prey I have seen in hundreds of hours is an immature White-tailed Eagle, not a sniff of a Goshawk. You never know though, the next VP I do could be the one.

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Regards,

Andy.

Just for the record we have so far done 48 ' birding hours' in Lincolnshire this month which is below avaerage for us and approx 21 outside the County. More hours , more chances. The glory of retirement!!

Forgot to mention , my Yorkshire list stands at 364 but I have never seen Black Kite or even Rough Legged Buzzard there. Where does that leave us other than numbers are fairly meaningless

Hi Alan

Calculations of 'birder hours' and 'birder years' are very meaningful, they can give us a probability of detection based on observer effort, i.e. how many hundreds or thousands of hours does it take to record for instance a Goshawk in Lincs. This provides us with a comparable metric of abundance, controlling for observer effort. As Lincs is comparatively underwatched, compared with say Norfolk, to really compare the two counties you need to know the amount of time put in to generate x number of records of y species. This is only pertinet for the observer that first finds individual x. In an ideal world we would all record how long we spend in the field and everything we see. Obviously this is a bit tedious when you are supposed to be relaxing and enjoying yourself and I'm certainly very lax in this respect, but in an ideal world......

Alex

_________________
Dr Alexander C. Lees
Lecturer in tropical ecology
Manchester Metropolitan University

Lab Associate
Cornell Lab of Ornithology,
Cornell University

http://www.freewebs.com/alexlees/index.htm
@Alexander_Lees

having read all this and considered from all points of view i think there is more common ground than people are giving credit for. i have in my paltry 3 yrs birding down here not seen a goshawk. i emphesise 3yrs because time in the field does not always count for to much, the right place at the right time is more important. i would certainly know a gos if i saw one in lincs ( i am a derbyshire lad ). i do not doubt the sightings by roger, john etc but alex is trying to clarify genuine wild birds ruling out escapes etc and to ascertain breeding possibilities. if they breed one year they tend to be pretty loyal to the site indeed the most successful pair in derbyshire breed at a site that as been used for approx the last 25yrs and is about 8 ft across. so basically i think wandering juvs are a good possability breeding yet to be definatly proved.
lets all agree to differ ever so slightly, some of the people some of the time comes to mind, and people will always feel narked if they think they are being spoken down to and officially accepted records are not always anything to go by because people in the know so to speak will just pass on verbal info to the people that matter and so go unrecorded. I did this last year, certain species on suitable habitat at the correct time of the year info with a grid ref was passed on a personnal level you never know who is reading this website with a map and marker pen. Indeed i did the same last wk giving info to alex on a personnal level and if he wants further sightings i might consider passing on further info, so no more site names please about this much sought after species.

terry whalin