The Lincolnshire Bird Club

Geoff Williams requested a poll on this and here is the most up to date information I can find:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12603625

There are only 120 Ruddy Ducks left in the UK, should they be exterminated?

I am against it as I don't believe it has been proved that it poses a threat to the White Headed Duck. I know where there are two but I don't intend to tell anybody!

Ian

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Andrew

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Andrew Chick
Website: http://www.forktail.co.uk/

[/quote]There are only 120 Ruddy Ducks left in the UK, should they be exterminated?[/quote]

YES!

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Regards.
Del.

To err is human. To really louse things up takes a computer

I am not taking part in the poll as I can see the arguement from both sides but I do have a couple of points to make -

1) Have those that are against the cull, stood up and objected to the culling of mink from nature reserves where they were killing the wildlife?
2) Would your views be the same if a cull was taking place in Spain / France / Germany etc of a bird species that was posing a threat to a British bird?

James

James,
You may, as you say, see the argument from both sides but I'm afraid the content of your post as written, perhaps unwittingly but nevertheless transparently, expresses in that post an obvious point of view from just the one side.

Anyway, re your two points.....from someone else who says he can see the argument from both sides :

1. Is there really any correlation between the vicious Mink indiscriminately 'killing the wildlife' and a seemingly harmless Duck that is purported to fly the 1000 miles or so to Spain for the winter....and particularly to seduce a single species ... the compliant WH Duck ? ie, Rampant Murder as opposed to mere Seduction.

2. If you think that Spain/France/Germany would EVER consider culling a bird species in their own country that was threatening a British bird's survival, then I would ask you if you also believed in fairies. Just to take one of those countries to illustrate its specific attitude to bird life :

Ortolan Bunting......quite literally, President Mitterand's last supper. It's supposed to be illegal to eat them now in France but go to the right restaurant/chef and you can still get them, served on the sly in sizzling ramekins ( and not forgetting a side-dish of the highly regarded lark's tongues as an appetiser). Such an attitude to 'the wildlife' somehow reminds one of the Mink.

Freddy

Without co-operation from across Europe as a whole which is about as likely as me winning the lottery, the value of the Ruddy Duck cull was always going to be at best highly questionable, particualrly with high numbers remaining unassailed on the continent. With Ruddy Duck numbers as low as they are quoted to be in the UK, further expenditure to cull the remaining birds cannot realistically be justified particularly in the current economic climate. I'm sure there are far more pressing concerns on the minds of many people in the UK, myself included, than the perils of hybridising ducks in Spain.

There is a certain amount of trust that we have to apply in a situation like this. A cull of this very popular duck is never going to sit well amongst those that have got used to it, especially as the reason for this cull is some sort of genetic pollution in a far away land. At Far Ings the ruddy duck was part of everyday birdwatching and now it is not. A full circle has completed itself as one of my first memories of Far Ings, in the late 1980's, when I had just ventured over the Humber Bridge for a look, was of meeting Graham Catley who was excited to point out a ruddy duck to me as it was very scarce. It is now very scarce again.

Our countryside or land or whatever you want to call it is changing so fast for many reasons, mostly not for wildlife purposes. We trust the likes of the RSPB, BTO, Natural England and so on to have an affect on government policies and national environmental issues. They do an important job for those who do not have a voice in important places. They have done good things to this point in time. Bittern projects, hen harrier persecution investigations, agricultural land use changes and so on. Many, many important subjects and often with some success.

When it comes to something like the lovable ruddy duck we get disturbed, it is disturbing to consider the sneaky gunmen amidst our land popping off this duck species while we look the other way.

I personally do not like the project and do not think this can work in the long term. When I am faced with what to do I fall back on the consideration of how many things these conservation bodies have got right, or right enough, over the years. I depend on Trust and these departments or charities have earned a lot of trust up to now. They may have got it wrong, they may not but at this point I trust them to do the right thing and that s the current tiny detail between me accepting the ruddy duck cull and protesting.

Hi Freddy,

I only made those 2 points because at the time I couldn't think of a point relevant to the other side of the debate (in fact still can't).

1. Possibly no correlation but I could make a military analogy. Is there any difference to the victim(s) of being killed in a mass carpet bombing (Mink attack) or being picked off one by one by a sniper (the WH Duck dying out one mating session at a time!!) They cease to exist under both scenarios!

2. The thought that other countries would introduce a cull as per the UK is, I agree, laughable but my question was theoretical and was suggesting that there was a touch of "it doesn't really matter what happens to the WH Duck they aren't British" in the anti-cull camp. My point still applies though, would any of our feelings be the same if a much loved British bird was being threatened by a similar species from overeseas

Note: Tongue was in cheek whilst writing most of the above!!

James

Just been away for a week and its been interesting to catch up with the debate.

I'd just like to say to James that if some foreign birds come over here putting our birds at risk its our problem to sort out if we perceive it so. The offenders could be shot here and the Spanish can shoot our birds there if they can find any.

I take Andy's point about trust, but we need to realise that sometimes our big conservation organisations get mixed up in politics and international "I'll sort out this problem if you sort out that problem". Such compromises are usually unacceptable to many and for that reason they are not talked about. Who knows what the RSPB got in return for supporting this cull, hopefully something worthwhile.

If the Spaniards had agreed to stop all illegal shooting and actually done it that might have been an acceptable quid pro quo to some, but as Freddy says, expecting Med countries to deliver promises would mean moving to cloud ruddy duck land.

phil
foreign birds causing probs with native species, can we start to eradicate pheasant then red legged partridge where so much damage is done to british birds of prey to protect the said foreigners, or is that too much to ask. think it is called an even handed policy, and by the way w/h duck is doing very nicely in europe.

terry whalin

And cats and dogs...

John

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Terence,
On the minus side, if you eradicate pheasants etc. what would happen to to all the passerines that are dependant on the food provided by game cover now that winter stubble is a thing of the past?

wildlife has always adapted pretty well without our so called well meaning interventions, it is us as a species that is the problem. we kill off native wildlife to protect the things we then kill for FUN OR SO CALLED SPORT. stoat weasel heron otters all birds of prey cormorants jays corvids in general ruddy duck woodcock snipe ducks in general the list is endless, fruit farmers with finches etc. always some pointed interest group that get a licence to CONTROL SO CALLED PESTS, RING NECKED PARAKEET. GULLS MESS AND NOISE. you should see cleethorpes on a saturday night with the larger louts. grebes goosander merganser after all they actually eat fish. I SAY VERY LOUDLY NO ERADICATION SHAME ON US ALL AS A SPECIES,

TERRY WHALIN