The Lincolnshire Bird Club

Hi Colin,

Just a quick word or two re your recent post before we are probably closed down.

I think it is a well-balanced and honest post......fair comment, indeed.

Freddy

Good bye Ruddy duck

http://www.lincsbirds.co.uk/album/displ ... um=1&pos=0

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Regards
Dean Eades



Take nothing but photos - Leave nothing but footprints - Waste nothing but time

My website: http://www.birdmad.com
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http://www.lcegroup.co.uk
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I dont see why this topic should be closed down just because some people have the wrong opinion .
Rob.

I can not see why it would be closed Rob,

_________________
Regards
Dean Eades



Take nothing but photos - Leave nothing but footprints - Waste nothing but time

My website: http://www.birdmad.com
https://www.facebook.com/dean.eades1
http://www.flickr.com/photos/birdmad/
http://www.lcegroup.co.uk
http://www.Canon.co.uk

OK, Dean and Rob - how about moved to Bird Chat Section - for this type of debate it is exactly why it was set up.

werever admin thinks its best is fine by me.
Rob.

Rob, why would you want the RSPB to be talking loud on this subject when they are in favour of the Ruddy Duck cull and you are obviously not?

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www.nickclayton.net
www.nickclayton.co.uk

I'm against the cull. Its not the birds fault they were brought to slimbridge so let birds be birds.
By the way and sorry for late posting I saw a common sandpiper on the witham at boston stump on
10 march.

simple on there site they say "Nature's voice" the Ruddy Duck is part of nature yet as you say they are in favour of the Killing of Birds
Rob.

I suppose that’s because they don't see the Ruddy Duck as part of the nature in this country but as an introduced alien species which is not globally threatened. I'm not trying to get into a for and against debate with you Rob but just giving you what I see as the RSPB's reason for not featuring Ruddy Duck on “Natures voice”.

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www.nickclayton.net
www.nickclayton.co.uk

Well on the RSPB WEBSITE it clearly says on the left front page ( Natures voice ) - on the right it says (We’re saving threatened birds and wildlife across the UK and overseas. With your support, we are creating a world richer in nature. ) there words not mine .

To me all birds should be protected from man -They are the royal society for the protection of birds yet agree with killing birds - these have been part of the UKs nature for years but kill them just to stop them breeding with another Duck and one that lives in another country .
I doult our Ruddy ducks nip off all the way to Spain have a S.... then nip back .

Im just against us interfering with nature in this way and have little respect for a society that says one thing and does another .
Rob.

As they see it they are saving threatened birds, the White-headed Duck. They are creating a world richer in nature by allowing Ruddy Duck and White-headed Duck to both exist where they belong, their words not mine

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www.nickclayton.net
www.nickclayton.co.uk

Supporting the (government's) ruddy duck cull isn't something the RSPB wanted to do, but given the scientific evidence - that doing nothing could threaten the entire survival of the white-headed duck - it's a policy I agree with. As far as I know every major nature conservation organisation in the UK supports the cull and especially as the RSPB didn't cause the problem it seems unfair they are being singled out for criticism here. As Nick points out there is nothing hypocritical or contradictory about what the RSPB claims on its website.

When you look at the issue objectively rather than emotionally culling the ruddy duck is no different from say culling introduced cats on Ascension or rats on Henderson Island where they have been threatening the survival of seabirds (in some cases it could be argued that culling rats is less morally justifiable as they aren't threatening the entire survival of a species, rather 'just' a population). You can argue with the science behind the cull, but I would be quite happy to bet the scientists involved are much more knowledgable, reasoned, objective and intelligent than pretty much all of us on this Forum, they aren't politicians, have anything to gain (other than perhaps more research) and as they are from numerous EU countries, including our own, perhaps we can dispense with the jingoistic rhetoric. These scientists warned there is a very real threat that the white-headed duck would become extict if we did nothing to stop the spread of the ruddy duck.

If the UK government did nothing to stop the ruddy duck spreading to Europe and interbreeding with the white-headed duck there was a very prospect they could have faced an even more significant fine from the EU than the cull has cost. So the suggestion that the cull should be halted on economic grounds does not appear to have a firm foundation (never mind the ecological/ethical arguments that would surely show a partial/unsuccessful cull to be more detrimental on the target species than either a full cull or no cull).

As we don't appear to have an 'informed and reasoned debate' forum I'll move this to the chat forum. (Ha! Someone beat me to it)

John

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Contact: recorder_south@lincsbirdclub.co.uk

One thing we can hope for as a result of the arguments over the necessity of the cull is that a stern lesson is learnt by all establishments who might plan to import other species for commercial or display reasons. We cannot go on importing aliens and then having to mount expensive and devastating eradication campaigns some years down the line. It may not be possible to predict what effect an alien species will have on the native ecology so the message should be "Keep all aliens out".

David

Thank you, John, for some interesting and relevant comments on this ongoing Ruddy Duck debate.

The more I read on the subject, the more it all seems to hinge on the scientists/taxonomists/fellow travelling conservationists' fixation on both the 'heritage debate' and the absolute necessity of the 100% purity of a species and , I fear, an even further fixation now, as with any "cause celebre", a relentless desire to see the project through to the very end...despite any new factors which might have emerged in the meantime.

'It thus becomes a tragic tale of racial purity, of avian ethnic cleansing by the 'professionals' who look at a species as sacred, sacrosanct. The reality, however, is that nature is in a constant state of flux. Conservationists have indeed found a ready scapegoat in the Ruddy Duck and are actually just diverting attention,and money, away from the real issues of massive environmental degradation.'

As the Guardian article quoted below states : Last year, some European countries with Ruddy Duck populations, (ignoring the very unlikely threat of being fined) gave up trying to kill any more birds for both financial and logistical reasons. Further,some websites tell us that the Ruddy Duck is thriving in Portugal and that there are also several thousand WH Ducks thriving in Spain.....seemingly unaffected by the Ruddy Ducks across the border.

......and the Guardian article :........

The Guardian article of 8th March 2012, appearing on Google if one keys in " Final 100 Ruddy Ducks in the UK facing extinction ," tells us that :

"The cull has killed 6,500, at a cost of £5 million, and the Goverment is about to spend a further £200,000 on the remaining (100 or so) birds." Anyone, but anyone, except a totally blinkered pro-cull individual, must agree that spending £5 million plus on eradicating a species of bird in the UK so as to preserve the 100% racial purity of a species in another distant (1000+ miles) country is a VERY large sum of money and a very questionable project. Some might even add that the money could have been better spent on 'bird protection' rather than 'bird extermination'.

One now begins to wonder if the whole project will be quietly shelved in Continental Europe while the ever-compliant British are left isolated as usual, and counting the cost of an unpopular (just look at our ongoing poll figures),short-sighted, gung-ho, very expensive (and in the end, pointless) adventure ..............not forgetting the bodycount of some 6,500 unfortunate Ruddy Ducks.

Freddy