The Lincolnshire Bird Club

the scientific community must learn to take us mere mortals along with them not make decisions on their behalf and then ignore the many widespread objections. grey squirrel bang lets have our reds back also no objection to mink being shot as they are now but our ruddy duck harms nothing here. hence my comment about only 4 white heads in 40 years. the thought of defras gunmen on our sacred land mean't to protect is beyond belief. our charming little blue billed fellow is the only duck that does something other than quack, it has character,look at me am i not great. leave him alone let them deal with a problem if they care about their own wildlife. non native species i have no problem with if they do no harm it surely enriches our what little we have left. we desperately need a major predator to control deer lets have wolf back. instead of spending the money on our charming chap where they also collect black necked grebe as a by product, spend the money on getting red squirrel back. ps keep up the good work in south america, all the best alex

terry whalin

Hi Terry

Thanks for the sentiments!



If Ruddy Ducks stayed in the UK then maybe they wouldn't be a problem, unfortunately that's not the case and we end up exporting a big problem elsewhere. I think Grey Squirrels are charming and there are plenty of people who keep ferrets who would argue that mink make lovely pets but then they still cause massive problems. Other effects are more insidious, the populations of feral geese in lowland Britain are contributing massively to eutrophication issues and threaten the integrity of many wetlands (farmers also massively to blame through runoff).



I agree completely on the deer front. I walked around Minsmere last xmas and it was sad to see the that the woodland in the RSPB's flagship reserve could be best described as 'disaster requiring a miracle'. The browse line was totally evident and the last time I was there in spring it was obvious that the herb layer was totally overgrazed; is it no surprise therefore that Nightingales are in massive decline nationally? The most obvious lifeforms running around were Grey Squirrels, Muntjacs and Pheasants. The first two of these are also major nest predators. Our own work in small forest fragments in the Amazon shows that bird reproductive success in such sites is super low because of huge populations of capuchin monkeys, Didelphis opossums and armadillos (all egg predators) owing to the historical extinctions of their own predators.

Threefold remedy

1) explain to gamekeepers that although Goshawks (ahhh) eat Pheasants they also eat loads of other species that either eat Pheasants (corvids), damage crops (woodpigeons) or damage woodlands (Grey Squirrels) and that the loss of some Pheasants is for the greater good.

2) Organise a massive mandatory nationwide eating exotics event, with lots of venison stew, squirrel burgers and maybe a nice Ruddy Duck a l'orange for the fortunate few.

3) Wolves (although this is even more unlikely apparently than me convincing you lot about the sense behind the Ruddy cull....)

Alex

_________________
Dr Alexander C. Lees
Lecturer in tropical ecology
Manchester Metropolitan University

Lab Associate
Cornell Lab of Ornithology,
Cornell University

http://www.freewebs.com/alexlees/index.htm
@Alexander_Lees

I agree with you Nick, it's been good to read an alternative reasoned view rather than the "Ruddy Duck is soooo cute we musn't harm them" opinion. Though a lot of content was too intelligent for me to fully take in!!

Well I am still listening and I must say that it is great to have some science injected into this debate to balance the emotion. However the points made by Alex and others (with which I agree) about many introduced species having a devastating effect on our indigenous wildlife (including a great number of plant species introduced for ornamental or financial benefit) are perhaps outweighed by the massive effect modern farming has here. Living in the middle of a large arable farming area it distresses me greatly to see hedgerows slashed to no more than a few bare branches and field margins reduced to a metre or less of sterile grass - no wonder species diversity and density are falling off the proverbial cliff. Even though the Government are attempting to address this issue with Stewardship schemes etc., I have seen a decline in quality of the countryside for wildlife in only the five years I have lived in Lincolnshire. The bird species count in my garden on the edge of farmland here is in the order of twenty whereas in my urban garden where I lived before in Derbyshire I had counted thirty four. Doesn't prove a thing and is wholly unscientific but nevertheless it is a trend that worries me.

Regards

David

Totally agree David, declines in common farmland birds are likely to be predominantly driven by land-use changes (hedgerow removal, suburban expansion) and farm regime changes (lack of stubbles, winter cereal use), plus high populations of meso-predators (e.g. corvids) which can easily 'trap-line' existing habitats to rob eggs (imagine how easy ot must be them to find nests in modern farm landscapes that offer so few opportunities for nesting). Meanwhile woodland birds are threatened by changes in habitat wrought by exotic deer, changes in management practices (e.g. less coppicing) and predation by meso-predators (squirrels, corvids etc). Your example is perfectly fine, large parts of South Lincs are among the most ecologically sterile areas of Western Europe. Ironic obviously as once upon a time they would have played host to the richest community in the UK, huge bog oak forests and expansive fenland. Great news then that moves are being made to turn back time (see the stilt thread). In the 13 years I lived in Foston (1987-1998) it was possible to watch the local extinction of several species - the last Tree Sparrows in the village disappeared when the farm at the end of the village was sold off as housing plots, with it went the stack yard that they used to forage in and the tree that they used to nest in across the road was rooted out. Sad times.

_________________
Dr Alexander C. Lees
Lecturer in tropical ecology
Manchester Metropolitan University

Lab Associate
Cornell Lab of Ornithology,
Cornell University

http://www.freewebs.com/alexlees/index.htm
@Alexander_Lees

And don't let us forget the estimated 50 million birds killed each year in the UK by domestic cats (Chris Packham's numbers). Any club members own a cat or two?

David

Domesticated vermin

Can never understand why a conservationist would have a pet Cat ?

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Regards
Dean Eades



Take nothing but photos - Leave nothing but footprints - Waste nothing but time

My website: http://www.birdmad.com
https://www.facebook.com/dean.eades1
http://www.flickr.com/photos/birdmad/
http://www.lcegroup.co.uk
http://www.Canon.co.uk

i will sign off from this subject now having fully aired my views and reasons for them, keep up the good work alex (long live ruddy ducks and antbirds) as for cats well i have not got one now but i have always been a pussy man,

terry whalin

_________________
Regards
Dean Eades



Take nothing but photos - Leave nothing but footprints - Waste nothing but time

My website: http://www.birdmad.com
https://www.facebook.com/dean.eades1
http://www.flickr.com/photos/birdmad/
http://www.lcegroup.co.uk
http://www.Canon.co.uk

Miaow

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GETTING OLD HAS IT'S ADVANTAGES BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT THEY ARE lol