Possible Lifer at Frampton Marsh....

Katherine Birkett · **Posted:** Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:04 pm

Are Pale-bellied Brents a totally separate species from Dark-bellied Brents? Tim Mackrill put me onto a Pale-bellied at Frampton Marsh this afternoon.....

Also seen today - 2 Marsh Harrier, 1 Hen Harrier (male), 1 Kestrel, what looked like the entire world population of Brent Geese, lots of Wigeon, lots of Teal, 1 Pink-footed Goose, pair of Yellowhammer at the feeders, 3 male Reed Buntings, roughly 100 Black-tailed Godwits, lots of Lapwings reserve-wide and 1 Goldfinch.

Also reported - Jay and Bullfinch. Both in hedgerow.

If Pale and Dark-bellied HAVE split fully, it'll be a Lifer!

Chris Grimshaw · **Posted:** Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:32 pm

Katherine if you look in the 2012 Bird Report you will notice that both pale-bellied and black brant are listed as separate species. So long-eared owl is no longer your latest lifer. The pale-bellied is. After you left this afternoon the barn owl appeared and showed well up and down the road. Thirty whooper swans also landed on the scrape just after five o,clock

Katherine Birkett · **Posted:** Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:45 pm

Oh, Dad - why didst thou appear too soon? #-o

Nick Clayton · **Posted:** Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:58 am

Chris Grimshaw wrote:

Katherine if you look in the 2012 Bird Report you will notice that both pale-bellied and black brant are listed as separate species.

They may be listed separately Chris but not as separate species, they are listed as separate races of the same species.

Chris Grimshaw · **Posted:** Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:48 am

I hear what you say Nick but does that mean Black Brant, White-bellied Brent and White-bellied-Brent are one one species or three (one tick 0r three?). We are all British but try telling an Englishman, Scotsman, Irishman or Welshman that they are the same species!!!!!

Nick Clayton · **Posted:** Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:55 am

Chris Grimshaw wrote:

I hear what you say Nick but does that mean Black Brant, White-bellied Brent and White-bellied-Brent are one one species or three (one tick 0r three?). We are all British but try telling an Englishman, Scotsman, Irishman or Welshman that they are the same species!!!!!

It depends on which list you are following Chris. I tend to follow the BOU list which states on their website "The BOU maintains the British List, the official list of wild birds records in Great Britain. The List is managed by the BOU’s Records Committee (BOURC)." They consider the various forms of Brent Geese as one species. You also said they were listed as separate species in the 2012 Lincolnshire Bird Report which isn't the case.

Phil Hyde · **Posted:** Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:54 pm

Just for correctness, the LBC 2012 report does not list the 3 "Brent Gees" as separate species, but by sub-species, i.e. B b barnacle, DB Brent; B b hrota, PB Brent ; and B b nigricans, Black Brant. So no lifer just yet Katherine, although things may change..

Phil

Nick Clayton · **Posted:** Sat Feb 07, 2015 1:56 pm

Phil Hyde wrote:

Just for correctness, the LBC 2012 report does not list the 3 "Brent Gees" as separate species, but by sub-species, i.e. B b barnacle, DB Brent; B b hrota, PB Brent ; and B b nigricans, Black Brant. So no lifer just yet Katherine, although things may change..

Phil

She could count it if she used the UK400 list though Phil

http://www.bubo.org/Checklists/uk400-club-britain-and-ireland-list.html

Phil Hyde · **Posted:** Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:13 pm

I know, but I wasn't citing that as an "official" taxonomy..
Phil

James Smith · **Posted:** Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:21 pm

Phil Hyde wrote:

I know, but I wasn't citing that as an "official" taxonomy..
Phil

But I thought Lee Evans was the gospel :shock:

John Badley · **Posted:** Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:20 pm

I think he's more into Pop.

John

Stuart Britton · **Posted:** Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:28 pm

Am I the only one who has read this thread and thinks "Does it really matter?"

Roy Harvey · **Joined:** Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:23 pm **Posts:** 956

But it matters to Katherine.

Katherine Birkett · **Posted:** Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:02 pm

All I'm asking people here is for a clarification about the supposed, alleged splitting of species....

Phil Hyde · **Posted:** Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:35 pm

Stuart,
It might be passé for ringers, but most birders are interested in taxonomy and its intricacies. It matters in the wider context not for personal/trivial listing reasons, but for identification of species/sub-species in relation to habitat requirements and hence conservation planning. Thats of interest isn't it ?!

Phil

The Lincolnshire Bird Club

Possible Lifer at Frampton Marsh....

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