The Lincolnshire Bird Club

A group of entirely adult large WHG on farmland today included a Yellow-legged Gull, an argentatus Herring Gull and three intermedius Lesser Black-backed Gulls.

Despite constant rain a Barn Owl hunted along the Witham’s banks, hard times surely.

Regards,

Ben

Hello Benjamin,
I also was watching a barn owl in the wind & rain & had the same thoughts..

Eyup mate, aren't nearly all our Herring Gulls around here in winter argentatus...?

Apologies if I should know this, but what is a WHG?

Colin
They're nearly all argenteus around here as far as I'm aware. Some argentatus winter in W Europe but in Lincs? I can't recall how many records there have been in our county and I can't access my reports which are in a box somewhere in our new home! I know none were mentioned in the 2012 report. Whilst working on the Hornsea windfarm site off the Yorks coast we were required to record L.a.argentatus separately from argenteus and there weren't many. It would be a useful instructional exercise if Ben could say how he identified it on this forum
Useful link here http://www.gull-research.org/hg/HG1CY07.htm
John

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Lincolnshire Birds https://www.flickr.com/photos/120340949 ... 8078912016
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Contact: recorder_north@lincsbirdclub.co.uk

As I wasn't sure of their status I consulted a local expert - Dean Nicholson - and here's his reply supporting Colin's opinion. The question remains about their status around Lincs - interestingly Ben was watching a large group of HG but only one argentatus. Dean suggests that birds go inland rapidly so coastal records may be few. Anyone got any data from Covenham Res? How many people look for this subsp? Mea culpa!
John

Hi John,

I can only talk from a Lincoln perspective here but Colin Scott is quite
correct in his assumption that argentatus predominate over teus in winter
months......
I've looked at this over several winters (at Whisby/Hykeham/Gainsborough)
now and have concluded that argenteus HG's are very scarce in the greater
Lincoln area between April and Sept (ie the breeding season) and when HG's
start to arrive in any numbers from Oct a quick look at primary patterns
reveals that the vast majority are tatus types, of course the big dark
mantled birds from further north are the ones that people notice (like Ben's)
but many southern breeding argentatus (ie Denmark, Germany for eg) are
very close to argenteus in mantle tone so can be overlooked, i have
estimated that up to 60/70% of our (Lincoln) local HG's are from the near
continent and are tatus types rather than teus types......this first
occurred to me when looking through large flocks of HG's in winter at
Hykeham and i finding that its actually the few pale mantled argenteus types
are standing out from the majority of darker mantled birds......also the
presence of yellow legged HG's in winter hints at argentatus (very unusual
for teus to show this).....
Like your Hornsea observations, I see very few argentatus at Spurn every
week also, they seem to arrive and quickly filter inland to winter around
tips and reservoirs (like Caspian Gulls) whilst the local teus don't move
too far, sticking around the coast.

Cheers
Dean

_________________
Lincolnshire Birds https://www.flickr.com/photos/120340949 ... 8078912016
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Contact: recorder_north@lincsbirdclub.co.uk

Thanks John, yes, not a problem;

Obviously darker mantled than argenteus more akin to michahellis, distinctive white tip with grey tongue eating into the black on p10, white tip with wide mirror to p9, cachinnans look to the wing tip...

Regards,

Ben

Just noticed the further post...

Predominantly Lesser Black-backed Gulls yesterday at Aubourn, eight Herring Gulls with just the one an obvious northerner.

Regards,

Ben

Jim, WHG refers to "white headed gull" it is a term used to describe gatherings of the larger species of gulls found in the UK. One would only really be aware of this if one is to read expert papers and articles on gulls, so, no, there is absolutely no reason why you should know this I have been looking at gulls for a little over two years now and it is a term I have only recently come across.. Yesterday morning in fact on reading this thread and I had to go on Google to find out what Ben was referring to.. I initially though it was Western Herring Gull though it did not make sense to me in the context. The abbreviations that sometimes get used on this forum can at times to me appear like nothing other than riddles as I have only been birding almost 3 yrs.

So the term "WHG" would refer to birds from the size of Lesser Black Backed Gull up to Greater Black Backed Gull and include the likes of Herring Gull, Yellow Legged Gull and if one is lucky enough Caspian Gull, Iceland Gull and Glaucous Gull, hope that helps..

Just for the record, I am not a knowledgable guller, just been trying to get my head round them for a couple of years... and I'm just getting confident with Adult birds... They are quite a mare and mostly do my nut in..! But great fun to add a different perspective to my birding.. I love them, they are cunning, big, elegant birds and they have a pop at numpties on the coast...!

Many thanks, Colin - much appreciated.

I, too, thought at first it might be Western herring gull, so I spent a bit of time Googling both that and Eastern herring gull - without any joy.

Then I thought it might be Wintering herring gull.

I went back to Google and tapped in WHG - and it came up with Walsall Housing Group

Until you brought me (and others) into the knowledge loop, I was resigned to the fact that this would be a thread exclusively for the experts.

Thanks again

Jim